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examination, and then availed themselves Hon. Proprietor asks, “ Cannot the Court of his assistance. By continuing this of Directors take up this question? The clause, they denied to the young men the last place where a subject of this kind benefit of any improvement in the system should be discussed is the Court of Proof education. If they were asked, “why prietors." I give the Hon. Proprietor do you not go to such a seminary,—you credit for this sentiment; and I must say, will be taught very speedily there ?” their that if it had not been for the continual answer is, “we are denied access to it- notices of the Hon. Proprietor, I meant we must go to Haileybury-we must not to have taken the subject into considera. think of an improved system of educa tion before I quitted the chair. Under tion." In the whole course of what he these circumstances, I will put it to the had said, he had not stated one evil of Hon. Proprietor whether it will not be the institution that appeared to be corrigi more prudent to withdraw bis motion, ble; it comprized a mass of inherent leaving the question in the hands of the evils. He should now conclude, hoping Executive Body, who, as a matter of duty, that this question would be discussed with must have it brought before them. I have out any reference to opinions formerly ad- privately turned my attention to this subvanced when it was debated in that Court. ject, but I have not moved in it, on acHle forgot wha: opinion he himself enter. count of the Hon. Proprietor's frequent tained, when the first discussion took place. notices. I may be here permitted to say, He had, on this occasion, taken up the that subjects of this nature are not immesubject in honest sincerity, and he felt diately, and in the first instance, taken up himself responsible to the Professors and in this house; and I must observe farther, the public if he had brought it forward that the Hon. Proprietor is consderably unnecessarily. He thought that he had in error in several parts of his state not done so. Those who heretofore had

The Hon. Proprietor considers that forined a different opinion on this ques. the Professors have no power to remove a tion from that which he now advocated, student. Now the fact is, that the first might, he thought, under all the circum term is strictly probationary. All the stances, abandon that opinion without terms are probationary, but the first is to incurring any reproach whatever. They be considered as such in a more particular might, at that peried, when there was sense, and during that period the Profes much clainour abroad, have defended the sors have the power of renoval. If, in college, from feelings of generosity. He that term, the student does not give the did not look at the decision of this ques College Council satisfaction, he may be tion in the light of a triumph to one party removed, and he is not permitted to reor another. He feared, if his views of the turn until such tiine as he is qualified: subject were not carried into effect, in therefore the Professors have that power some shape or other (and certainly the which the Hon. Proprielor speaks of. proposition would come with a better The Hon. Proprietor also went on to grace from the Court of Directors than argue, that we have no certificate of colfrom any other party), that the question duct --nothing but a test of qualifications. would be travelling into this Court every He certainly could not have read the two or three years, which would be made statute, for the act expressly says, that the the scene of a great deal of unnecessary student shall have a certificate of his resiacrimony.-(Hear, hear!) The Hon. dence for four terms at Haileybury Col. Gent. concluded by moving a resolution lege, in conformity with the rules, which in the terms of the requisition. He then certainly includes general good conduct. observed, that if the motion were carried, If the Hon. Gent. will adopt the sugges he should subsequently propose the fol tion I have thrown out, and will leave the lowing resolution : “ That it shall not be question in those hands where it can most lawful for the Court of Directors to no safely be left, namely, with the Court of minate, appoint, or send to India, in the Directors, I think it will be more advaocapacity of writer, any person who has tageous for all parties. The Hon. Pro not submitted his qualifications to one or prietor will, however, recollect, that the more public examination, as they shall, Executive Body do not now stand in the from time to tiine, appoint.”

same situation, with respect to the College, The Chairman. —" It was not my inten.. which they formerly did. The Bishop of tion to have troubled you on this question London, as visitor, now exercises a power, so early, if it had not been for what has which was at first vested in the Court of just fallen from the Hon. Proprietor, Directors. whom (though we differ in opinion) I The Hon. D. Kinnaird, said that, in con heard with very great pleasure-(Hear, formity with the spirit in which he had hear!) I do not say this with any desire brought forward this question, he felt disof complimenting the Hon. Proprietor, posed to adopt the suggestion of the Hon. but we must all applaud the mild and Chairman. At the same time be thought gentlemanly manner in which he brought it was quite necessary that it should be the subject forward.-(Hear, hear!) The distinctly understood how the Court was

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situated. It had been clearly stated by to make any alteration, provided it did not
him, all along, that if the Court of Di. interfere with the spirit of his resolution.
rectors would do any thing to put an end He hoped his Hon. Friend would not be
to the constant discussion of this question, induced to withdraw it ; because if he did
he would not meddle with it: he there. they would then be precluded from further
fore hoped that he would not be accused interference. The subject would be thrown
with having prematurely introduced it, as entirely into the hands of the Court of
he knew not that it was about to be taken Directors, and then every thing would be
up behind the bar. The Hon. Chairman got rid of.
seemed to intimate that, after considering The Chairman-“ I apprehend that the
the subject, the Court of Directors might Hon. Proprietor's suggestion, instead of
possibly accede to this proposition, or to removing the difficulty, creates a new one.
something else which would affect the spe I should not have ventured to have acted
cific question. It would be as well, un as I have done, if the suggestion bad not
questionably, for the Court of Directors to originated with the Hon. Mover himself.
abstain from further inquiry, if they had It is impossible for the Court of Directors,
no hope of introducing some proposition directly or indirectly, to bind itself to any
which would arrive at the same result proposition, or to state what course they
which he had in view; namely, that of may think proper to adopt. After what
preventing this question from ever being fell from the Hon. Mover, I thought it
discussed here again. Unless that could was in my power to prevent the discus-
be done, he (Mr. D. Kinnaird) suggested sion from going farther ; but, if any spe-
wbether any advantage could accrue from cific pledge be expected from the Court of
postponing the question. If any circum- Directors, I believe the discussion most
stances could be pointed out which would
make it more desirable that the discussion The Hon. D. Kinnaird“ When you
should be heard hereafter-if gentlemen spoke of the Directors taking the question
were likely, for instance, to come to it with up, I inferred that some measure, similar to
less passion, and more temper, he had no that before the Court, which would finally
objection to the postponement. With res settle the matter, was contemplated. If
pect to the certificate, what he meant was, the Hon. Chairman did itot mean that, I
that there was a test superadded to that can only regret that he made such a re-
certificate. As to the right of appeal from quest as he has done, which proceeded on
sentence of expulsion, he knew very well grounds that were scarcely justifiable.
the unfortunate situasion in which the The Hon. Chairman stated, that being on
Court of Directors were placed.

the eve of leaving the chair, he had in-
Mr. Hume said, the speech of his Hon. tended to bring this question forward, but
Friend must have carried conviction home was prevented by my frequent notices.
to the mind of every person who had heard What was I to understand from this but
it. There could be no second opinion in that the question was about to be taken up
that court as to the evils which were con effectually ?”
nected with this institution, and no time Mr. Carruthers presented himself to the
should be lost in removing them, so as to Court at the same time with Mr. R. Jack-
render the establishment as complete as son.

He submitted, that if the debate possible, and to enable it to afford to the were to go on, he was in possession of the young men an excellent moral and scientific chair. education. He must now observe, that The Chairman, however, called on the if bis Hon. Friend acceded to the proposition latter gentleman. Inade by the Hon. Chairman, it would be Mr. R. Jackson said, this would be a throwing the question out of Court; he lesson to the Court not to give way, very therefore hoped that the Court would una hastily, to sensations of great and extranimously agree to a suggestion which he ordinary pleasure. It did seem to him would inake. He would leave the busi- that the Hon. Chairman was holding out ness with the Court of Directors ; but he the olive branch, which they were all so would do so by prefixing a few words to anxious and so willing to receive. While the motion of his hon. friend. He meant he was on the point, he would state the motion to run thus :-“That it be most unequivocally for himself, and for referred to the Court of Directors to take those with whom he acted, that no desire into consideration, whether so and so shall was more ardently cherished by them, than be now done," setting forth the present that of leaving this question to the Court motion. By this course neither party would of Directors; a question of such imporbe compromized; and it would prove to all tance, that five or six-hundred gentlemen concerned, that the Directors wished to had met to deliberate upon it. But, if be see whether any thing could in fact be were unfortunate enough truly to underdone. He was not aware of any specific stand the Hon. Chairman, he said, “I mode of inquiry; but, if any objection propose to do that which I and my Hon. were offered to this proposition, he was Colleagues have often said was next to sure his Hon. Friend would not hesitate impossible-I mean to take into considera

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tion the whole detail of this extraordinary Grant; who, in the course of that discusquestion.” Now he (Mr. Jackson) had sion, emphatically said, that if the insti. no objection to add to the motion the words tution at Hertford were as immaculate as proposed by his Hon. Friend ; namely, human ingenuity or conduct could make “ That it be referred to the Court of Din it, it could not stand against the malevorectors to consider the propriety of peri- lence of the attacks that were being contioning Parliament for the repeal of this stantly directed against it. (Expressions of clause.” The Hon. Chairman would not, disapprobation.) Were gentlemen so indif. however, concede this.

Assuredly the ferent to the dangers which threatened the major ought to comprize the minor; and, company in these reiterated charges against if the Hon. Chairman felt no objection, the College? Perhaps he might be alafter refusing the boon for several years lowed, in calling their attention to this past, to take the whole subject into consi- matter, to inquire into the nature of their deration, certainly he could not refuse the civil appointments to India. It was not minor point which his Hon. Friend de- now, as it used to be, that young men went inanded. Undoubtedly, he might agree out qualified to be mere factors or agents; to that interesting inquiry, whether a pa but the system was now, to qualify them, as rent should be allowed to preserve the it had been lately expressed by Mr. Malthus morals and watch over the education of (in his clear and unanswerable statement his child, or leave those important consi- in respect of this College), for the honourderations to chance. He would not now able employments of statesmen, and goargue that proposition; but he would cau vernors of districts or provinces. They tion bis brother proprietors not to be were to be called upon, in representing thrown out to sea altogether, by resting the Hon. Company, to study the habits, content with the assurance, that the Hon. and opinions, and prejudices, of a vast poGentleman would do that, before he left the pulation; to dispense justice to a people of chair, which the whole Court of Directors various nations, languages, usages, cushave declared impossible. He and his friends toms, and religions; to preserve order had no objection to submit the subject to among some of the most unsettled regions the Executive Body with gratitude and of the earth. They were to administer pleasure; because such a course was most justice, indeed, over an extent of dominion consonant with their ideas of the true con larger than the largest of the European stitutional connexion which should always kingdoms; and to become, as occasion subsist between the Proprietors and the might require, magistrates, statesmen, amDirectors. In 1817, he had implored bassadors, and generals. Such were the that the whole question should be referred duties which the civil servants of the Comto the Executive Body. He had lowered pany were required to perform; and this his tone, and now only wanted them to reflection ought naturally to lead gentlemen consider this single proposition.

to inquire what system of education could The Chairman.-" The discussion must be framed for preparing young men to dis

charge functions like these, equal to that Mr. Carruthers. The present oppor which prevailed in the institution at Herttunity might have been looked forward ford ?--/hear!) a system which had been to by many individuals, who were de- expressly devised for these purposes, and sirous to deliver their sentiments upon this was rendered daily more effective by its question ; but by no one with more anxiety uniformity of action. There might be than by the humble individual who now some deficiencies in it; and, no doubt, addressed the Court; he hoped that these some defects and disparagements, some considerations would influence Hon, Pro. errors might be shewn to exist in it. ( Hear! prietors who sat around him, to give himn hear!) But it could not be forgotten, their attention for a short time. The ar that the College was still in its infancy; guments he had heard from the Hon. Pro- and, however distant it might be said to be prietor who had introduced the question, from perfection, yet, at least, the records were at once so ipconfclusive and impru- of this institution would prove that gendent, that he (Mr. Carruthers) could not tlemen, who having passed their examinabe content with giving a silent vote. In tions according to the College statutes, and conclusive and imprudent, however, as after completing the course of studies those arguments were, they presented no through which they were required to tranovelty to his mind, for they had been vel, had gone out to India, had there dispropounded and refuted so long ago as the tinguished themselves in such a manner as year 1817. They were advocated by a to challenge the highest respect for their learned gentleman who he now saw in the

general acquirements, and to call down Court (Mr. R. Jackson), and whose elo the admiration of the service for their gequence, he remembered, made a great im- neral conduct. It was to be observed, that presion upon all who heard him; but by these individuals had so distinguished themno man were they more warmly opposed, selves at this early period in the existence than by the late excellent and venerated of the institution. (Murmurs nf impatience.) colleague of the worthy Chairman, Mr, He hoped that he was not unnecessarily

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trespassing on the time of the Court; but coming from the unfortunate youth (and, he did trust that gentlemen would permit above all, as coming from the disappointed him to state his opinions without interrup- parents, relatives or guardians of that unfortion. Unquestionably, every institution tunate youth), who, from inattention to his which the liberality of any individuals prescribed studies, from negloct of his duty, inight found as a seat of learning, would, or from insubordination to those whom the in its infancy, be subject to much abuse, statutes of the College had set over bim, and to the misrepresentations of its open liad lost his valuable appointment of a and secret enemies, until time should wear Writer. But such affairs, deeply affecting all its clements away, and its fame rest as they were to those who suffered from upon the basis only of its own past good them, were not to influence the Court upon Forks. He apprehended it could not be the question which they were met to discuss shewn, but that the universities of Oxford that day. It was no single misfortune, no and Cambridge, when they were first found individual case that clained their delibeal, had to encounter, in their infancy, rations; but the welfare, the happiness, and many enemies, and much opposition also : order of millions of their subjects in yet they had the singular advantage of India: for it must depend upon the opi. being founded by Kings and Queens, and nion of this Court whether the Company at a time, let him be permitted to say, should or should not, over those millions when royalty in this country was unre. of people, place such enlightened civil strained, self-willed, all-powerful, and servants as might, by their ability, their tyrannical. Those seats of science bad attainments, and their zeal, render their survived the enmity of their foes, and had Indian dominion as lasting as it was exnow flourished for centuries, through every tensive. Well, then, (he felt disposed to danger and despite of every attack. Though ask) what system of civil education could, assailed by every storm that ignorance, or by possibility, so well prepare young men bigotry, or malice could create, they had for the discharge of those arduous duties outlived the peril, and had become part of 'he had alluded to, as the institution at that astonishing system which must flourish Hertford, even though the different system in this empire as long as time.-(liere the proposed by an Hon. Proprietor should Hon. Proprietor was again interrupted, and have the advantage of public examinations ? wis for some time inaudible.) Really the Let it be remembered, that the supplicacontinued) one would imagine, from the tions of youth-the tears and entreaties of sort of opposition that was raised against parents--the threats of friends, would not this College, that gentlemen behind the prevail with collegiate authorities to act in bar (the Directors) were now relieved from violation of their oaths, and against collethe uncomfortable, and even painful situa- giate laws, by certifying the good conduct tion of being obliged to listen to, only to and acquirements of a youth during his refuse, the applications of their friends, residence in college, when, either from in. on behalf of sons and relatives desirous of subordination or negligence, that youth going out to India; but he believed the might be really altogether incapable of fact to be, that, notwithstanding all the passing examination. On the other hand, previous preparation that was now required, surely it was almost too much for gentleall the studies, the tests, and the exami men'to expect that tutors, if unfettered by nations that were to be gone through, the these restraints, and unbound by collegiate Directors were rot one whit relieved from laws, could long remain proof against the embarrassing difficulties of their pain- such continual entreaties and threats. Nor ful situation; nor did he think it to be would it be wise in gentlemen to place in. true, that, if admission to the civil service dividuals in so distressing a situation as of the Company were not opened, ap. that which should expose them to such appointments would not be filled by those plications. ---Wbile feelings like those he equally qualified for their duties : for, had endeavoured to express continued to eren among the first gentlemen of Eng- influence him, lie did hope, that the quesland, or in their families, there would be tion of this day would meet with the same found individuals destined for the church, fate that a similar question found in that or the army, or the bar, who would be too Court, in the year 1815. When he saw content to receive civil or military appoint- the advantages which this institution had ments to India, even on the condition that already efiected; when he reflected upon the nominee should reside the necessary

its beneficial influence on the happiness number of terins at Haileybury. That being and well-being of their Indian subjects, the cas , lie did contend, that ihe opposition and marked the fostering care of that imwhich had been raised against the College must be, to a certain extent, groundless.

inense population which was evinced by

those who had been educated in the Col. Bo the evils of that institution what they lege, he felt an anxious hope, that such an might, they would not be found to be as extensive, nor as irreme diable, as its ene

institution might be admitted as an inte

gral part of the Company's Indian system,

This and an assurance that, in that case, the all fair enough as system would endure as long as India

Vol. XVII, 2 U

mies would represent them to be. opposition, indeed, was

Asintic Journ.-No. 9-9.

should continue to exist. He entreated servants bad been previously pointed out, Gentlemen to recollect, before they came in e forcible manner, by that able and exto a final determination upon the important cellent man the late Marquess Cornwallis; point before them, that it was impossible and he, it need hardly be added, had taken, to say how soon the question might be at the same time, all imaginable pains, put upon the whole of that system, “ De- and had done all that man could do, to relendo est Carthago?" and that when their medy so unfortunate a deficiency. But so officers were scattered about the world, in circumstanced was that enlightened nobleother regions, and on other services, - man, that his own work broke under him. when, in short, the government of India There was then no college; and if the sys. should be suppressed, it would be too late tem which the Marquess Cornwallis endeato reflect upon the destruction of this in voured to establish could not sustain itself, stitution, or to ask whether the continue the bad tools with which the workman was ance of such an establishment might not obliged to labour, and not the workman still have preserved to them the empire of himself, were to be blamed. The Hon. India. (Hear !)

Proprietor then read the minute of council Mr. Poynder next addressed the of 1807 ; which set forth, that the civil Court; who said, that he apprehended, in servants and officers of the Company, the first place, that any gentleman who upon the system then acted on, were, in opposed the present establishment of the most instances, wholly unequal to the seCollege, must substantiate two positions, veral duties to be performed in the civil by way of founding liis opposition: first, service of the Company. The minute that the present system was inefficient; and then described the nature of those duties; secondly, that an equivalent could be some of which were more particularly furnished for it, if it were done away with. these : to administer laws to millions of Now with regard to the first of these posi- subjects, varying in religion, customs, tions, the charge of inefficiency, gentlemen habits, language, and opinions ; to main. ought not too hastily to credit it, on the tain order and good government over counmaxim of Cicero, “ Magister optimus est tries occupying one of the largest portions abusus :" or, in more homely language, of the world; these, and the collection of where they had not got an absolutely bad revenues, were the offices to be discharged thing, they might, by changing, get a by the Company's civil servants in India ; worse instead of a better. The next po numbers of whom, however, were unsition to be proved was, that the gentlemen equal even to the proper exercise of the who had introduced this question could functions connected with the collection of substitute something that was equivalent, the revenue; although the principal merif not superior to that which they chants at Calcutta, and the natives of wished to remove. Certainly, in his own Bengal, who were engaged in official or judgment, and as far as he had been able mercantile transactions, superintended daily to make up his mind on so difficult, exten operations, in figures and numerical calcusive, and important a question, the Hon. lations, infinitely more varied and compliProprietors had not established either of cated than any which came under the these positions. (Hear :-) He was about 10 notice of the Company's servants. Now occupy the time of the Court for the first this minute, the Hon. Proprietor thought, time (for he believed he had never ven had been the whole occasion of the estatured to do so before), while he mentioned blishment of the College. It would be a few considerations that might satisfy admitted by all who beard him, that, at the them, that the motion before them period in question, the great body of the not the sort of one they ought to entertain. Company's civil servants in India were not And here he must be permitted to bring sufficiently qualified to discharge the imthem back to the origin of the institution. portant duties of their several arduous siHe should consider the time of the Court; tuations, being equally deficient in milibut, upon so grare a business, he had no tary and scientific education. The civil choice left him, and therefore addressed establishment at Madras was even worse them, only remembering that brevity was than that at Bengal. The result of this the soul of wit as well as of argument. state of things was, the foundation of an To shew the origin of the College, he institution in India by the Marquess of would adopt the words of the Marquess Wellesley; but that had never possessed Wellesley, in that celebrated Minute of the sanction and confidence either of the Council, which was said to be the primary Court of Directors, or of the Board of cause of founding this institution in Eng Controul. It had it not, chiefly on account land. It was a minute made in reference of the sort of expense which it necessarily to the deplorable and acknowledged in. required, in order to be duly provided : competence of all the Company's civil but it was still more unfortunate, because, servants in India, at that time, for those generally speaking, European education appointments which they were called could not be obtained but in Europe ; and, upon to fill in that part of the world. The if in Europe, then only in England. fact of this incompetency in the civil These considerations and circumstances


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