led to the establishment of the college at Hertford. It was first set up by the EastIndia Company; and in 1813 made a College, by an Act of Parliament, especially confirming the foundation and its statutes, and authorizing a variety of regulations as to its future government and arrangements. First, there was a certificate required, to be delivered by the Professor in the school to which the young man who was going out to India belonged; next, a certain course of studies was en. joined, a course of which he (the Hon. Proprietor) would say, if he might be permitted to indulge an opinion on the subject, he hoped that the Court, by its decision this day, would render perpetual. (Hear, hear!) In addition to this, a certificate was required to be given, on the going out of the party, by the Professor, relative to good conduct and proficiency in oriental languages (and these were to be such as the Court had been to-day informed were necessary under the statutes), and other matters. For all this extensive system of education, the young man, or his parents, were to pay only 100 guineas per annum. Now he had not heard any grave objection taken to the expense. What, then, was the ground of so much objection to the College? for all who objected might not take precisely the same view of the case with the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Kinnaird). Why it was not to be expected that a college of this kind, seeing how much and how immediately it interfered with patron age (hear, hear!) should not, even at the outset, excite considerable enmity and opposition. Before the passing of this Act of Parliament, any young lad of fifteen years of age who had the requisite interest, although he had acquired no other knowledge but the mere rudiments of the meanest education, such as spelling, reading, writing, and arithmetic (which might all of them be picked up by a lad in any of the commonest writing schools in the country), might go out to India. It was now required that he should be competently skilled in arithmetic, Latin, and Greek. These were the qualifications required of him, even at his entrance into the College, when he passed an examination. The Court had already heard that, before he quitted the college, he was to be certified as having made the requisite progress in the oriental languages, mathe. matics, theology, &c. Then, again, as to his period of service: the addition to that period was, perhaps, another ground of objection. If a young man could not now go out to India until he was eighteen years of age, and before the establishment of this college he could go out at fifteen, it required very little proficiency in arithmetic to discern, that three years were added to the period in which he could hope to acquire a fortune. It needed as little ob

servation to be satisfied, that the opposition and objections of many individuals, in some way or other connected with the Company, naturally arose upon their finding their patronage thus encroached upon. But, again, a certificate of morals was now exacted, and such a certificate was not formerly required. So that here a man's hopes and destinies might suddenly sink under him, because he possessed no certificate of his moral conduct: and for his own part, he did not mean to say that the thing should not be so; because the EastIndia Company ought certainly not to send out young men, not qualified in point of morals to fill situations in India, upon the proper and efficient discharge of which depended the welfare and the happiness of 60,000,000 of people. No wonder, however, that a feeling of dissatisfaction should quickly find its way from the parent to the child. The young men were given to understand that now, to qualify for an appointment in India, was a very onerous business; but, as had been well observed by the Hon. Proprietor (Mr. D. Kinnaird), it was to be remembered, that young men were not always permitted to choose their own employments in life. There might be cases (not known, indeed, to the individual who was addressing the Court) in which young men, dreading either the length of the voyage, or sickness, or the heat of the climate, might decline India altogether, and prefer staying at home: and this was all very well. haps, in a like situation, he might do so himself. But all this had produced considerable dissatisfaction in certain quarters; and it was impossible to say, that the same sort of feeling might not occasion a good deal of excitement among the young gentlemen themselves. Notwithstanding this, he must presume to say, upon the question of qualification, that the statute having laid down certain definite and invariable principles, and seeing also how well the system of qualification at our universities had answered in this country, he did not know why it should not be of equal benefit with respect to India. (Hear!) Mr. Malthus observed on this point: "These means of exciting emulation and industry have been attended with great success. Though there are some, unquestionably, or whom motives of this kind will not or cannot operate, and with whom, therefore, little can be done; yet a more than usual proportion seem to be animated by a strong desire, accompanied by corresponding ef forts, to make a progress in the various studies proposed to them. Those who have come to college tolerably good scholars, have often, during their stay of two years, made such advances in the classical department, as would have done them great credit, if they had devoted to it the main part of their time; while the contem

Per

porary honours which they have obtained in other departments have sufficiently proved, that their attention was not confined to one study; and many who had come from public and private schools at sixteen, with such low classical attainments as appeared to indicate a want either of capacity or application, have shewn by their subsequent progress, even in the classical department, and still more by their distinguished exertions in others, that a new field, and new stimulants, had wrought a most beneficial change in their feelings and habits, and had awakened energies, of which they were before scarcely conscious. There are four or five of the Professors thoroughly conversant with university examinations, who can take upon themselves to affirm, that they have never witnessed a greater proportion of various and successful exertion, in the course of their academical experience, than has appeared at some of the examinations at the East-India College."-Now, doubtless, the Hon. Proprietor (Mr. D. Kinnaird) had not found this passage in the book he had quoted from; but there was another upon the subject of morals in the same book, which he would mercly advert to, for really he was ashamed of quoting. Mr. Malthus insisted, not only that in this college there was not a deficiency of morals not only that its general moral character was not lower than that of other colleges-but that, in this point, it was for the most part superior to the universities. This passage being as much to the point, and of as much importance as any that Mr. Kinnaird had quoted, he called the notice of that Hon. Proprietor to it. Mr. Mal. thus then proceeded, in his book, to call on those who in newspapers and other publications had libelled the institution, to come forward and endeavour to substantiate the facts which they had put forth. Hitherto Mr. Malthus had been unsuccessful in his appeal (a laugh), but in his book he adduced still stronger testimony than even this backwardness of the accusers. The Hon. Proprietor added, that he mentioned this because the Court might expect to-day to hear something about the subject of morals. With respect to insubordinations, it was admitted that there had been some in the College; and he should be glad to know where it was not to be locked for in these times? It was further stated by Mr. Malthus, that from one of our public seminaries there were more boys expelled at once-“ uno ictu," as it were -than had been expelled from Hertford College in seven years: let not gentlemen therefore be run away with, at this time of day, by such a motion as that of the Hon. Proprietor, who surely could not convince their minds against such evidence as this of Mr. Malthus. With regard to the Oriental languages, the rule was, that

It

the whole of the writers destined for Bengal must go to the College at Fort William, in Calcutta, which they entered, therefore, with the attainments that they had made at Hertford College; and not only did they manifest those attainments, but some of them, at their first entrance into the College at Fort William, were able, not only to make a brilliant display in the class of Oriental languages, and keep a very respectable rank upon the College lists, but had actually abridged the average period of residence from three years to one!(Hear!) This was a striking exemplification of the utility of the Hertford institution, and these were facts which went far indeed to demonstrate the falsehood of many among the charges brought against that establishment. had been said, that a youth was a boy, and not a man, at the age of sixteen; and it was inferred that the objection taken to his conduct, in some instances, arose out of the early age at which he was sent to this college; that some indiscretions were to be expected in pupils, who, sent there at the age of sixteen, were expected, the moment they arrived there, to act like men. -(Hear, hear !) The answer to this was, that the advantages of the regulation were evident. The intermediate stage of life between youth and the commencement of manhood must be passed at Hertford College, and certainly with more advantage than if the party were exposed, at such an age, to the temptations that abound in a warm climate. An exposure of that kind, indeed, would be to make them men somewhat prematurely. If he understood the Hon. Proprietors who were most opposed to the present system, they thought that parents or guardians, who could make the fortunes of their sons or their wards in India, ought rather, for a certain lapse of years, to send them to either of the Universities. If this proposition could in such cases be acted upon, what advantage to the parties could come of it? The course of an university education would occupy a young man some years beyond the time at which he ought to embark for the East; or he would embark for the East with a very unfinished and imperfect stock of knowledge, learning, and experience. And how would Hon. Gentlemen propose to remedy this defect in these days, when it was so difficult to get an university education? But the course of study in the Company's College was infinitely better calcu lated to fit the servants of the Company for such appointments as they would have to fill, than the course either of Cambridge or Oxford. In the universities they would be taught the dead languages, theology, and mathematics: in the College at Hertford they would learn, among other things, the principles of ethics; philosophical science; history, ancient and modern, na

tional and universal; theology, and the construction of the Oriental languages. Now, unless gentlemen could define some change in the period at which a parent would allow his boy to go out to India, it was impossible for them to devise any change for the better in the Hertford system of education. A word or two, now, as to the morals of universities. Far be it from him to derogate in any respect from all that had been said about the morals of those seminaries of sound learning and information; but would any man, would any father, who was acquainted with the state of the streets at night in Oxford or Cambridge, and who knew the state of society in either university,-would any man say but that the streets of Hertford were the better of the two?-that they presented a much more favourable specimen of morality? (Hear, hear!) This was a matter to which he adverted only by the way. But universities were proper to prepare men for certain given stations in life only; they left them, comparatively, little fitted for others: and indeed there was a freedom about their system, which supposed that parties were afterwards to be almost entirely independent of any other than the ordinary restraints of society. He therefore considered that the broad latitudinarian system of the universities was adapted for England; but the system of the college at Hertford, alone, for India. Much had been said about tests and examinations which might be substituted in the place of the regulated course of this institution; and, before quitting this point, he might be allowed to advert to what Lord Grenville had remarked upon the character of universities.

-

His Lordship spoke very ably, and, indeed, it was impossible for him to speak on any subject otherwise than ably, in favour of the advantages of an university education.

It was not necessary to quote his words, for doubtless the Court would hear of them in the further progress of this discussion; but what his Lordship said applied only to men. No doubt of it; but was not the term during which this education lasted to be taken into the account, in estimating the preference to be given as between the Universities and the Company's College? Gentlemen had said, that at the university there was a test by which candidates for honours or degrees were tried; and that, in regard to those who desired to go out on civil appointments to India, a similar test ought to be established; and that if, upon examination, the man did not come up to this test, then let the whole matter as to him break down, and let him be dismissed and this degree of com petency it was further proposed to open to general competition. But what was this test, and how was it to be applied? In what way was it to be administered?

How could the same measure give the value of different capacities, and of different talents? It was like measuring different faiths, and about as impracticable. Again he asked, how the same measure or rule could be applied to the attainments of men, who might have been brought up under different tutors, and instructed in different sciences? To what degree could one and the same standard ascertain the measurement of totally different articles -fluids and solids, pulse and water? (Hear, hear!) It appeared to him, therefore, that there could be no such fixed, definite, invariable test. But if there could be, he wished to ask where the ultimate power of rejection was to reside? Was it meant to be said that the Directors should be empowered to revoke the sentence of the Professors? He put it to those Gentlemen themselves, to consider what ap. plications, what intrigues there would be, to induce them to look favourably on the manner in which young gentlemen sustained this test, and to recognize the merits they had displayed. Was it, on the other hand, meant to be gravely proposed that the test should be left to be administered by the Directors? How were these important questions to be answered? The case was still worse, if the responsibility of this test was to be put upon the tutor. Let it be observed, after all that had been said about the expulsions from Hertford, that the Professors of that college were men of probity, and of a high sense of duty; which they had evinced by standing their ground subsequently to those expulsions, although they had been exposed to all sorts of entreaties, and of applicationsof applications to their feelings. They had been described as having ruined the characters and blasted the expectations of these unfortunate youths; they had been assailed with representations and entreaties; and, more than this, they had even been menaced. () (Hear!) The examiners of the College had also been applied to. Let the Court advert to the propositions of the Hon. Proprietor who introduced this motion, and see whether his examiners would not be open to some applications of that kind. If they were so open, such tests must necessarily proceed in fraud; whereas (as was the case at Hertford) there ought to be a careful, scrupulous, and professional duty, to be faithfully performed by those who had the charge of such examinations on their hands. Why then what became of the Hon. Proprietor's test?-and that going, his whole objection and proposition went with it. (Hear!) It was per se a test without measure and without rule, and to which no certain regulating principle could ever be applied. This part of the argument of that Hon. Gentleman, he was entitled to say, sunk down under its own inconsistency.

But

the Hon. Gentlemen had said, "Let the College continue to exist; I do not wish to destroy it.-I would not harm a hair of its head. (4 laugh.) But let us have something else in its stead. Let us have another mode of educating these youths.' Now this was as bad in every respect as the doing away with the College : for where was the parent or guardian, who, with the cases of these youths before him, could ever think of sending his son, or his ward, to the College at Hertford, if he could qualify him elsewhere? (Hear, hear, hear!) If ever a literary preparation was requisite for those who were afterwards to fill a public post, it would be highly requisite in the case of those who were to go out to India. It would be requisite all the time they might remain in England, but it would be most requisite at College. The service of the Company required that these youths should be of good discipline as well as of good abilities; of good morals, and of good conduct and acquirements. What father or guardian then, su peradded to those terms which must be necessarily kept for the purpose of acquiring all literary attainments, would, if the Hon. Gentleman's principle was correct, expose a young man to the unnecessary difficulty of seeking those high-laid attainments at Hertford? (Hear!)

What

parent would think of sending his children there at all? (Hear!) But then the college would be deserted; and if the college was not to be kept up, what was to become of it? Who was to pay for it? True it was, that the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Kinnaird) had offered for its continuance the aid of his purse: but he (Mr. Poyuder) was not so liberal. He would not support it at all if it was not well worth supporting. But here would be a College half full, and a test half efficient, and much expense attached to both. Though he (Mr. Poynder) might be impressed with the strength of the arguments that had been used in favour of the education given at our universities and public schools, this was a proposition to which he protested that he could not subscribe. Much had been said about the natural liability of every man to a desire of educating his own children after his own manner. Now this did seem to him com.. pletely a "reductio ad absurdum:" (hear!) to talk about a liberal education being forced, forsooth, upon young men; to talk of forcing upon them the golden chains of India patronage; to talk of their being expected, before they were called on to preside over the happiness and well-being of millions of subjects, to qualify themselves in this manner; to consider that this was imposing a hardship upon them(hear, hear!) It had been ably said by a gentleman who stood next door to the Directors-educate your officers properly!

and let those who would not pursue the great objects and interests of the Company, lay down their authority. Meanwhile, no private interests ought to intervene; but their maxim should be

"Salus populi suprema ler.” The state required that they should support their College. He could see no injustice in punishing a man for his misconduct; but it was said that it should not be by expulsion. Why, let gentlemen look to any one of the learned professions; would they not find that certain disabilities were in them annexed to misconduct? There were, again, a variety of inconveniencies attached to the learned professions; but really he wondered that the Hon. Proprietor (Mr. Kinnaird) did not think it was a very hard thing that the young gentlemen should be under the necessity of crossing the seas, and that he did not propose that they should be allowed to provide themselves with air balloons in order to make the voyage. — ( A laugh.) The Hon. Gentlemen really appeared to think, that it was such a hardship to take up these appointments, that it was a wonder any body would accept one- (hear). It was now necessary that he should make a similar declaration to that which they heard the other day from the Hon. Proprietor, who thought it proper to assure the Court that he had been but twice in the Marquess of Hastings' company. He (Mr. Poynder) had never been in the company of any of these Professors once: he hoped, therefore, to have credit for disinterestedness, equal to the Hon. Gentleman's, in the part he had taken on this subject; a subject which, as a Proprietor of India Stock, he thought extremely important (hear) The Court, according to the old adage, had better leave well alone. It would be worse than an absurdity to attempt to remedy an institution, which had sent forth individuals so distinguished for moral character and consequence; and let it be remembered that, next year, it would have been established nearly twenty years. The objections to it, in its present state, arose out of some little irregularities, and of the consequences necessarily attending them. He hoped gentlemen would pause, therefore, before they consented to the motion of the Hon. Proprietor; before they gave themselves up to follow the ignis fatuus of that Hon. Gentleman's eloquence, into every bog which it would lead them into, and every whirlpool in which it would involve them, (hear!)

Mr. Rigby said, that if he understood the question before the Court, it was not what the Hon. Gentleman who had just spoken had described it to be. This was not a question as to whether the old road was built on a bad and infirm foundation, and ought therefore to be wholly done