sense of having their discretion examined before a public scrutiny, and that their acts would form the grounds of motions in that court. The result was, that they were slow to exercise the power of exclusion: and this led naturally to the consequence, that many worthless and incapable persons were sent out as writers, who did no good, and were merely a dead weight on the Company. When a rebellion, as it was called, broke out in the College of Hertford, why was there so much greater a sensation caused by it than was produced by a similar event in any other seminary? It was not long since a serious disturbance took place at Winchester College the students actually took the college by storm, and nailed up the provost in his own house; and it was not until military aid was called in that the rioters were quelled. The consequence was, that the principal promoters of the disturbance were in a body expelled; and yet no great sensation was produced in the public mind. It was not many months since a scene of disturbance took place in Christ's College, Oxford, the ringleaders of which were all expelled; and though they were allied to some families of distinction, still no great sensation was excited by the circumstance, and almost passed off in total silence. Why, then, was there so great a difference in the result in public feeling? because, as was well known, the value of the appointment was of such a momentous nature, that the places which formed the necessary preliminaries to their being enjoyed were defended to the last gasp, the parties knowing that from the act of the professors there was an appeal to the visitor; and should the visitor confirm the expulsion, there was a last resource, a motion for the discussion of the act in that Court. (Hear!) He was not prepared to go the length of saying that the system pursued at the College was perfect; he did not mean to say but that it was very wrong and injurious that there should be any obstacle to the removal of a young man, whose conduct during his state of probation rendered such a step necessary; he was not prepared to deny that persons were sent too early to this establishment, and amongst those things that were done, and which rather shewed a sense of the value of the appointments than a disposition to have them worthily filled in the authors of these appointments, he was told that young men were sent to the College who had an objection to being there. This, he was free to say that he strictly guarded against; nor could there arise any objections on the ground that there was not sufficient power vested in the Directors to make the necessary alterations, for they were authorized to do so under the act of the Legislature. To the Directors, then, with whom the power resided by the appointment of the Legisla

sent.

ture, should be left the exclusive right of making any alterations which they in their discretion should think necessary; and if they should neglect the performance of their duty, then, and not till then, should there be that public appeal to the Court which was made by a motion like the preBut, instead of allowing that regular course to take effect, the supporters of this motion had come forward, and in the present instance interposed before the Directors had stated their disinclination to take the matter into consideration; and not only was that the case, but they were compelled to hear chimerical fancies substituted for grave deliberation. If any change were wanted in the system of the College, it should be effected through the instrumentality of the Court of Directors: thus only could it be safe, thus only could it be effectual. Then he would come to the consideration of what it was they were called on to do. They were asked to agree to make an application to Parliament to alter a most essential clause of the act relating to this College. In the first place, he would put it to the sober reason of the Court-was it a light thing for them to go before Parliament, except when a case of absolute necessity forced them to do so? For his part, were he even more doubtful than he was as to the propriety of this step, nay, had he been persuaded that there was much to blame in the result of the operation of this clause, still he would hesitate long before he would resolve to adopt such a measure as that now proposed. It was well known that all great and prosperous establishments were looked up to with some degree of jealousy. The Company, of course, had their secret enemies, who would be glad to make use of the present opportunity to strip them of their privileges. Supposing, then, they did resolve to go before Parliament and ask for their interference, was there any man there who could attempt to point out where that interference would stop? Were they prepared to say that Parliament thought with them on various important points? Was it not notorious that a statesman of great eminence had made a declaration entirely unfavourable to the College? Parliament was not bound to concur with the Company in a variety of topics which the Company would expect to have taken for granted; and the result of an application to the Legislature would be, that they would risk the probability of the Parliament turning round, and at its own pleasure altering the wholse system. Admit this first step, and the consequence would be a repetition of these applications until the whole face of the Company's establishment was altered. (Hear!) They ought to bear in mind that they never did appear before Parliament without great danger,

and seldom without great loss. He would put it, then, to the understandings of all who heard him, ought they to go to Parliament upon a trifling ground? Had any case been made out of that degree of necessity which would render it imperative on them to make the experiment, and provoke all the dangers to which such a step would make them liable? (Hear!) He was happy to bear testimony to the fact, that on this occasion no personal aspersions had been cast on any of the professors. The forbearance of the gentleman who brought forwatd this motion in this respect deserved great commendation, and he wished the same abstinence had been observed in the year 1817. Under all these circumstances, then, he considered that no case to justify this step had been made out. It was clear that the common consent of all established the great importance of education, and appropriate education, to the due administration of the civil service of the Company. No abuse had been proved to exist in the mode of communicating that education as it was at present exercised; and if they had a true sense of the interests, not indeed of the individuals who were appointed, but of India and their country, that would induce them to negative this motion. To apply to Parlia ment under such circumstances would be, in short, a suicidal act. (Hear!)

Mr. Gahagan said, that the Learned Gentleman who just sat down appeared to him to have admitted the ground which his Hon. Friend the Mover advanced in support of this motion, because the only reason for offering such a motion to the consideration of the Court was the existence of much that required to be altered. He wanted not to destroy what was good: let what was good be retained, and what did require mending let it be altered. The Learned Gent, was surprised that this motion should be persisted in after the declaration made by the Chair, that the College was in a prosperous situation. Now he thought the reverse was the case; because, if the Chairman was really of opinion that the College was in that happy state of prosperity, was it not strange that he should also tell them that he and his brother Directors had been engaged in deliberating upon that subject, and that they would have long ago communicated with the Court upon the subject, but for the repeated notices which had been made in the Court by others. Did not, then, this declaration negative the assertion of its being in a prosperous state? But to leave this topic, and come to the real question it was not, as many seemed to suppose in the course of that debate, the quantum of good which this College effected, but the question was, since you have so much good resulting from this establishment, per se, was it right or pro

per that you should bar yourselves from endeavouring to get some, if not as much good elsewhere? He, for one, was not so satisfied that a vast deal of benefit had been produced by the Haileybury establishment. He expressed this opinion without any intention of undervaluing the authority of Mr. Edmonstone or Lord Minto (and, by the way, he did not well understand how any comparison could exist amongst those students of whom his Lordship spoke, since they were all from the same college). It was not enough to praise the system of the College, they inust shew that the old system was of a nature that it was necessary to have a new one, and that that new one supplied all the deficiencies of the old. It would not be denied that some good was effected by the College, for where would they get a case of ingenious youth, under good masters, that would not impart and receive some advantage? But he was at a loss to know what the peculiar advantages, what the superior benefits of this College over all other existing institutions for education were, that rendered it beyond all possible exertion to equal any where else. The first question propounded was, that the civil service was supplied with persons who were inade. quately educated, and the authority of Lord Wellesley was mentioned, and his beautiful language quoted in support of the assertion. But these sentiments were uttered at a time when his Lordship was in the plenitude of his glory, he himself having been the author of that comprehensive system which he described; having been the acquirer of those extended dominions the Jaghire in the Carnatic, the Northern Circars, the Baramhal. It was his own glory he had in view when he talked of dispensing justice to millions of people, with various languages, manners, and usages, of administering a vast and complicated system of revenue, and of maintaining civil order in one of the most populous and litigious regions in the world. He was ready to admit the necessity of giving an adequate education to their civil functionaries; but he should like to know what extraordinary qualities existed in the people of India, that it required in their judges, ambassadors, magistrates, &c. a greater degree of wisdom and knowledge to perform their duties perfectly amongst them, than would be sufficient to render the same persons fully competent to the same duties in this country. Then he should like to know, could not a tax-gatherer in India be equal to his duty, with the same extent of education as was possessed by a Chancellor of the Exchequer in England. And as for judges, magistrates, &c., if they were not to be found in Hertford, he did not know where to look for them. But he would wish to ask those very grave (he would

say nothing of their sagacity) persons, who talked in this comprehensive manner about the duties and the obligations of civil servants, if indeed those relations in which they were engaged were so extensive, those trusts so sacred, and those stations so exalted, how was it possible that the preparation for their mighty duties could be communicated in the short interval of four terms. (Hear!) That able and experienced economist the late Mr. Ricardo, who he presumed could not have been equal to one of the officers in the civil service, did not acquire his knowledge in that short interval. Even Mr. Malthus, himself, who tried to correct the errors of his early victims, was unable to teach the science in two years. Surely there must be something exceedingly imposing in the attributes of this College. Oxford and Cambridge had nothing to compare with it. Westminster, Eton, and Harrow were only a joke to it. There you are on sacred ground; amidst its shades, you walk in all the pride, all the stoicism of superior knowledge. What were their Alfreds, their Edwards, their law-givers and statesmen, compared with the men of Hertford? The Roman Haileybury rose on the ruins of the Athenian Oxford. (A laugh.) But if it were, indeed, that superior establishment so materially exceeding all other institutions in the communication of all the important branches of education, what injury could it sustain by creating an opportunity for the scholars educated elsewhere to have a fair chance against its students? How could such a liberal measure abridge the means, the superiority, the glory of Hertford College? Would it not, on the contrary, be doing good to allow other seminaries to come in competition with it? by which means the great inferiority of the one, and the pre-eminent advantages of the other, would be still more conspicuously displayed. He could not believe, then, but that some reasons, other than those which were stated, formed the grounds to the motion now before them. But great

credit was demanded for the College, for infusing into the scholars superior moral improvement. Taking these statements to be literally accurate, he would ask, was the circumstance of good conduct, for merely an interval of two years, a satisfactory ground for concluding that the remainder of the boy's life would be unexceptionable? The Learned Gentleman himself fully answered this question, by stating that some very worthless fellows had been sent over from the College, whose conduct was any thing but satisfactory. But there was another serious reason for abolishing the monopoly now enjoyed by the College. The Court would see, that though much had been said of expulsions from other seminaries, as compared

with expulsions from Haileybury, yet there was no parallel whatever between the two cases; because, if he was not in error, the result of expulsion from Haileybury, was a disqualification in the person to enter any department of the Company's service, civil or military. (Cries of no, no.) But yes the statutes said so. He was not speaking lightly, or with a view to mislead: he would read the statute. The fourth statute had these words: student expelled the College, shall be admitted into any line of the Company's service. (Cries of "repealed long since.") The Chairman. "If the Hon. Proprietor will persist in reading repealed statutes, he may confound, but he cannot assist the deliberations of the Court. (Hear! and a laugh.) That statute has been repealed by the Directors."

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Mr. Gahagan." I was not aware that the fourth statute was repealed. I believe I am right, however, in representing that the student is not admissible either to a civil or military office after having been expelled."

Mr. Jackson." We know that the statute in spirit says no student shall be admissible to any civil office, or to the military line. This statute may be softened by regulations, but it is impossible it can be repealed by the authority of the Directors."

The Chairman." I beg pardon, but this is not so. The Act of Parliament states that the Directors shall have power to make regulations; and they have altered the fourth statute comformably to that power. As the statute originally stood, no student who had been expelled was admissible to any line of the Company's service; but as it at present stands, the student who shall be expelled is not admissible to any of the offices of the civil establishment, or to the Company's Military Seminary abroad."

Mr. Hume. -"What is the date of that statute?"

The Chairman.-" 1820."

Mr. Gahagan." Then, Sir, I find I was right up to the year 1820. (A laugh.) But let them examine the statute as it was now read to them. It now appeared that an expelled student could not enter the Military Seminary. What was the object of this seminary but to make soldiers, to qualify men for entering into the military service? (No, no.) Well, then, it was to give instruction in military science. What, then, did it happen that he who was not admissible to their college for instruction in military science, had it in his power to go out as a cadet, and perhaps distinguish himself in the service? Could he jump over the seminary, could he pass by Addiscombe with contempt, and the qualifications it was supposed to give, and yet arrive at distinction in their service?

Need he notice the case of the two students who had been branded in this way: passed over to India, entered the military service, and acted with such distinguished conduct as to merit a certificate from the superior officer to that effect? There they were, living reflections on the absurdity of their regulations. With what justice might they say, "I was branded by you : you thought to ruin my prospects, but here I am to laugh at your statutes, and here is my recorded testimony of good conduct, to shew the worthlessness of your decisions." Expulsions from the schools in England, from Westminster, or Eton, even from the colleges of Oxford and Cambridge, attached no disqualification to a man through life. The circumstance might be unpleasant, it might give pain to the family of the youth, but its effects reached no further. And they knew, too, that there might be other than disreputable causes for such a measure being taken with respect to a student; they knew that some of their greatest men had undergone the harsh sentence of expulsion. That very eminent public man, whose sanguine politics did not check the admiration that was universally felt for his honesty and private worth, he meant Sir Francis Burdett, was, he believed, expelled from both Westminster and Oxford. (A laugh.)

The Hon. D. Kinnaird.-" Really, Sir, I must say there is not the least foundation for this statement. I am sure it is not necessary to state, that it is merely one of the ridiculous stories that are connected with the name of every eminent man."

Mr. Gahagan in conclusion observed, that for all these reasons he thought that the compulsory clause should not be retained, and he would therefore most cordially support the motion.

Mr. R. Jackson. He could have wished to abridge the observations which he felt it necessary to make on this occasion, on account of the lateness of the hour; and he was the more anxious to do so, because he understood the question was to be met boldly and honestly, and not encountered, as on a former occasion, by a motion for the previous question after a protracted discussion, at six o'clock in the evening. His Learned Friend near him (Mr. Impey) deprecated, and perhaps with propriety, those appeals to Parliament. Now he (Mr. J.) would say, that in proportion as he felt repugnance to such appeals, he would be disposed to approve of the present motion; because, if it was successfully resisted, if it was again met by the previous question, he would pledge himself to the fact that there were 500 gentlemen who were ready to present a petition to the House of Commons, and offer to prove by evidence every fact which they submitted-(hear!). If, then, they would

meet the question fairly, if they would avoid parliamentary discussion, let them consent to this motion, and they might expect that this would be the last time they would ever be troubled with the same subject. He trusted, then, that he would not be disappointed in the anticipation which he formed of hearing this question fairly and fully met, and the sense of the Court taken upon it. The learned gentleman who had spoken last but one had properly complimented his worthy friend the mover, for the moderate manner in which this question was brought forward. He could have wished that the Learned Gentleman had taken example by that moderation, and avoided all reference to the proceedings of 1817. However, having alluded pretty freely to those proceedings, the Hon. Gent. could not blame him (Mr. J.), if he followed him to the account of that debate. And first he had to notice the admission of the Hon. Gent., that he would have agreed to an inquiry, if an inquiry simply had been asked for; but as the question was for the specific application of an assumed remedy for a particular alledged grievance, he would not agree to it. But did the Hon. Proprietor forget that the motion of 1817 was for inquiry, and that then he opposed that proposition?

Mr. Impey." I beg to say that I have not stated that I would agree to an inquiry now. I said I would prefer inquiry to the course that is now proposed."

Mr. Jackson. Certainly he was understood to say that he would not object to inquiry, and in that case it was unfortunate he had not entertained that wish in 1817, for if inquiry had gone on, then it was likely that none of these evils which they had since to lament would have taken place. He remembered very well the Hon. Proprietor complaining of the motion for inquiry on that occasion, and charging the authors of it with the responsibility of ripping up old grievances, and uselessly referring to unhappy transactions, the agitation of which could only have the effect of disturbing the order which was at that time restored in the college.

Mr. Impey." If the worthy Proprie. tor chuses to advert to former discussions, he will please to recollect what I did say. I have no recollection of what he is now alluding to."

Mr. Jackson. The Hen. Proprietor did certainly rest his case, on the former occasion, on the representation that the order of the college was placed on a firm basis, and that it was not likely again to be disturbed. He remembered that such was the line of observations pursued by the Hon. Proprietor. But, unfortunately for his judgment, disturbances not only did recur, but recurred in an aggravated form, and he believed that if the amount of dis

turbances that took place before the period when this prophetic assurance was uttered, were compared with that which took place since, the balance would be found to be much larger within the latter period. Then the worthy proprietor referred to the testimony of Mr. Malthus, a very eminent authority no doubt, and entitled to a great deal of respect. But to what effect was the testimony of this gentleman adduced? Was not the whole value of his argument comprized in this: here we are in the plenitude of our power, and yet I am hopeless of the college. Certainly that Court had not been thought very highly of by that very learned person. It excited a smile of ridicule on his cheek, to think, that the lady (so he called them) and gentlemen Proprietors of East-India Stock should presume to talk about learning and such things. Nevertheless he (Mr. J) had much rather hear that said of the Court of which he was a member, than what had been said by Mr. Malthus of the Court of Directors, for in reference to them he did not hesitate to state-" if there be only a scrap of patronage in the way, they (the Directors) would risk the destruction of the whole college to obtain it." But the Learned Gentleman had alluded to a passage in a former speech of his, on which he made some comment. Undoubtedly he (Mr. J.) had complained of the mania which seemed to have seized the Directors, and which shewed itself to such an extent as to justify the expression, that they were about to deluge India with an army of young Grotiuses and Puffendorfs, But did not the Hon. Gentleman remember his distinct declaration at the time, of his anxiety for the substantial education of their civil servants? Had he not stated, that having declared his wish for their education, he had also observed there was a limit beyond which they ought not to carry it? That they ought not to pay too great attention to those more attractive branches of education, to the prejudice of all instruction in commercial matters. He had even read the resolutions of 1805, in virtue of which the institution of a college for education had been founded, and which was conceived in these terms: — "That this Court doth highly approve of an establishment in this country for the education of youth designed for the Company's civil service in India; and promises itself the happiest consequences from a system, which, instead of sending out writers to India at too tender an age to admit of fixed or settled principles, proposes previously to perfect them as much as possible in classical learning, and thoroughly to ground them in the religion, the constitution, and the laws of their country: so that, when called upon to administer their functions abroad, they may be mindful of the high moral obliAsiatic Journ.—No. 99.

gations under which they act, and of the maxims of the British Government, whose character for justice, freedom, and benevolence, they would feel it their duty and their pride to support." He took it for granted that it would not be said, that those who assented to that resolution, would not be considered as being indif. ferent to the expediency of educating the persons who were to fill the offices of the civil service. Now he himself (Mr. Jackson) was the very man who proposed, who penned that very resolution; and let the knowledge of that circumstance inspire the individual with some compunction, for having charged him with an indifference or hostility to the education, in a proper manner, of their civil servants. But, said the Learned Gentleman (Mr. Impey), "I am surprised that the Gentlemen should now think of proceeding with this motion after having so strongly advised him against it, and now that every thing was restored to order, and the college in a state of quiescence." Did the Learned Gentleman mean this as a reproof to the Chairman, or to his Hon. Friend who made this motion? Because they had from the Hon. Chairman that day the expression of his intention, before he quitted the chair, to revise the state of the college, with a view of effecting such improvements as might appear to him were necessary. Surely the deliberating, cautious, calculating mind of their Chairman, did not forsake him on this occasion and this expression of his intention did not escape him without perceiving the propriety of doing so, and without having previously satisfied himself that such a step was called for by the circumstances of the college. He surely would not entertain an opinion, much less suggest it, that an inquiry was necessary, unless there was in his opinion such manifest grounds for investigation as rendered it perfectly safe in him to promulgate his intention. But the learned gentleman had been really guilty of the sin of plagiary that day; he had made a large use of argument and expressions employed by himself in the year 1817. On that occasion he remembered very well that he (Mr. Jackson) had been stopt by the Hon. Gentleman's statement that all had been quiet within that year; that there had not, in fact, been any disturbance for a year-(hear!) On that day he had had documents with reference to this subject, which he was ready to bring forward in case the matter was brought to a parliamentary discussion; and should the discussion be carried to that extent, he should feel it his duty to give the public his discourse on that occasion from the Asiatic Journal. However, he remembered very well the arguments of the Hon. Gentleman; and it certainly was a VOL. XVII. 2 Y