present system) might have been urgedit was hardly possible that the two parties could each of them be right. (A laugh.) One of them must entertain sore fundamental error in its view of the questionand he himself was rather inclined to consider, that their right way of proceeding would be somewhere in a medium between the two extremes which had been proposed to the Court (Hear, hear!) He was quite willing to acknowledge the extraordinary benefits which the Company had derived from this institution: but he must at the same time admit, that it manifested, occasionally, great defects and disadvantages. The immediate question, therefore, was, whether the sort of remedy that had been brought forward by the Hon. Proprietor was an appropriate remedy (Hear!) He remembered, that, at the framing of the Bill which afterwards was passed into an Act of Parliament, some of its provisions were agitated in the next room very strongly, and he was certainly one of those who divided upon the question, as to whether it would not be a wise and sound policy, on the part of the Company, to admit among the candidates for civil employments in India those qualified individuals who might not have been educated in the college at Haileybury(Hear!) He (Mr. Pattison) thought it would be a wise and sound policy-for that it would be opening a door to merit, wherever it was to be found, or from what ever quarter it might present itself-without limiting its competency to the particular college in question.—(Hear!) But, however he might have viewed the subject, the body of Directors thought otherwise, and the Act of Parliament had since settled the point definitely: for it was now provided and enacted, that all the civil servants of the Company must, previously to their entrance upon their appointments, have gone through a certain course of education, and have kept four terms at the least at Haileybury. He believed it was generally confessed that very important services had been derived from the College, and that it had sent out many eminent individuals to India. (Hear!) That was a fact that did not seem to be at all contested. So many officers of an admirable education had distinguished themselves— who as young men had been pupils at the College-that the practical benefits of the institution cald not be doubted.

On the other hand, it was perfectly well known that, in spite of its probations-of all those probations which had been so much boasted of-very indifferent subjects had occasionally found their way from this College to India-(Hear!)—and it might be well worth while to inquire how this happened. It would be found, that it arose from the fallibility of a regulation, which permitted the Professors to give cer

tificates of qualification where the parties, during their residence in College, had just kept within the bounds of collegiate propriety, and having just satisfied the requisites of the statute, had obtained their testimonials and gone out to the East, although they were really very incapable. But he would ask Honourable Gentlemen, whether all this was not in the ordinary course of nature? It was the mere variety of the human mind,—were they all of them conjurors?—(a laugh)—were they all great statesmen? or enlightened officers? or able commanders? No!-(Hear! and a laugh). They could not all of them be equally able he had no doubt but that there might be many in that room who were almost all that he had mentioned, and skilled in each capacity; but it was really probable that there were many who were not-(a laugh).-Indeed he could imagine nothing that would be productive of more mischief and unquietness to the community than, if it were possible, that they should all of them be very clever fellows (a laugh); that there should be none possessing the humbler talents which were to be met with in society. If all men were gifted with the same high endowments, they would be each for taking the lead in public affairs, and endless disturbances would ensue. Now the use of those bumbler talents was essentially this; that they should follow, while those of a higher order took the lead.-(Hear!) He thought, therefore, that every Proprietor in candour would admit, that much good had been done to the Company's service by the institution of the College. But the Court were bound to look upon the question before them-not on any contracted principle, but as to its bearings upon the Government of India-as to the use which the College had been in that respect.

It had been contended, that the qualifi cations which this institution was to furnish to the young men brought up under its superintendence, might be obtained at a school. Now any body who was conversant with the duties to be performed by a young man on leaving the college at Calcutta, must know, that he who had no more than the qualifications which he might have obtained at a school, would be very incompetent to the performance of those duties. To that performance he would have to carry an education of a higher order than he would be very likely to have received at any school, and the command also of some share of self-controul: that controul, under the hands of a mere Magister, the party would hardly have been able to acquire, and indeed, if he should have acquired it under authority of that kind, it would not most probably long remain with him, seeing that on his arrival in India the young man was himself to be obeyed. The question, then, to be con.

sidered was, whether greater talent might not be obtained by the Company than it at present derived from Haileybury, and yet be obtained with equal benefit to its service, by opening these qualifications to competition. Upon that question he (Mr. Pattison) must say, he entertained considerable doubts. (Hear!) He could not bring himself to decide whether the case would be so or not; but, in order to arrive at the determination of the point, it was clear that they must travel over very inconvenient roads. The limitation to Haileybury was now a part of the law of the land, and to obtain other talents, or rather talents from other quarters, the Court must be required to petition Parliament for an alteration of the law. No man could entertain a higher respect for the Commons House of Parliament than be did; and seeing the many benefits which the country enjoyed from their labours, he thought every man must feel grateful to them for their exertions: but, if the present question were to go before them, and then be referred to a committee, and if in that committee a discussion should ensue as to what course should be adopted in respect to such petition-he was not prepared to say to what length the House in its present feeling might be disposed to go. He presumed that it was well known (and it was matter of great advantage to India) that appointments to offices in India emanated from the body of Proprietors through the medium of the Court of Directors. He would not take upon himself to predict what the consequences might be of a different mode of appointment; but he was sure gentlemen would agree with him, that very serious mischiefs might ensue if the mode of nominating writers were to be altered. In the present instance, circumstances had occurred, productive undoubtedly of considerable pain and regret to individuals, but he was not at present speaking of families or their feelings. (Hear!) The Court had a paramount duty to perform to the Government of India; but it was of great consequence that its servants should go out free from any sort of influence that might destroy their principles of action, and that the parents of those persons should also be free from such an influence. It appeared to him that there were two questions to be considered by the Court: the one, the good of the service; the other, the good of those individuals. Now he wished it to be perfectly understood, that no man felt more deeply or sincerely than he did for the sufferings of those young men who had been lately expelled from the College, and for those of their parents; but he was not aware that it was generally known among gentlemen, that young men going to Haileybury College were not necessarily appointed writers.(Hear 1) At Hailey

bury they were only rudents.-( Hear !) They were required to go through a certain course of study, and if, at the end of a stated period, their conduct and acquirements were found to be such as to deserve it, then they were appointed writers. It was not, therefore, too much to say, that the loss of an appointment, which in fact the unfortunate individuals whose case was before the Court had never possessed, did not amount to the very great hardship it had been represented to be.

There certainly were a great number of statutes affecting the system and government of this College, and the student was bound to observe them. At the same time, no one could deny that it would be a great grievance if young men must be selected at an early age, and sent to qualify themselves at one certain place of educa tion, if the discipline of that place were not of such a description as should ensure the continuance of that education. A worthy friend of his had said that that discipline was insufficient, and that the number of hours devoted by the Professors to the education of the young men was equally inefficient for the proposed object. It became his (Mr. Pattison's) duty, when he sat in the chair which their Hon. Chairman now filled, to receive a notice from his Hon. Friend Mr. Kinnaird, that he was about to bring on the discussion of this subject; this was at a time when disturbances to a great extent had recently arisen in the College, and when it would have been evidently highly improper to have entered upon the public consideration of such a subject; the Hon. Proprietor (Mr. Kinnaird) was then induced to withdraw his motion, upon the understanding that the question should come on at a future period. It devolved upon him (Mr. Pattison) subsequently to state, that it had been taken up by the Court of Directors most gravely and deliberately.

In the course of their investigations upon the matter, the Directors had to discuss at some length the conduct and the duties of the College Professors. (Hear!) And he was free to own-for he had no secrets to keep in respect to his public acts, (hear, hear!) that they experienced great difficulty in dealing with those gentlemen, for their views were all collegiate, as they termed them; and the Directors were of opinion that some new plan should be adopted, if it were more advantageous to the Company's service than the existing one, even if it should not appear to be collegiate (hear!) but the Professors demurred to such an alteration, and certainly no blame could attach to them on that account. Every Hon. Gentleman would feel that, as young men, these Professors had been educated at an university, and having in their experience seen so many admirable examples of the excel

lence of such a system of education, they would naturally Le prejudiced in its favour. It would be admitted, however, that even in the original construction of this unfortunate College of Haileybury, there were many inconveniences; one of them was, that it was built in the middle of a common, and at a distance from a town, so that in its immediate vicinity there were no means of amusement within the reach of the students, in the long winter, and he might add, the long summer evenings. Now let the Court remember what were the hours of study according to the regulations. It was not to be expected that young men, left to themselves, would sit down at two o'clock in the afternoon, and read away till ten or twelve o'clock at night, and every night. "We have all of us," continued the Hon. Director, "been young men in our time; I am afraid, at least, that that is not the way we have passed all our leisure evening hours." (A laugh.) It was thought and proposed in the Court of Directors, that some further instruction might be taken by the young men after two o'clock from the Professors; that the study of natural philosophy, or other science, for example, might with great advantage be taken up by them, and that thus some part of their afternoons or evenings might be beneficially employed: and seeing that, from the arrangements of the College, each Professor in the course of a week devoted so few hours to the students, it certainly was considered that it could be no great hardship to ask them to give a few more hours to this afternoon instruction. But no: this proposition was declared by the Professors to be anti-collegiate. (A laugh.) Now he was ready to admit, that he had some doubt about the correctness of what had been frequently stated in reference to this part of the subject, namely, that not only did the young men in the College acquire all the knowledge that they could be expected to acquire, but that in some instances their abilities were rather tasked-they were put to the stretch. It might be so, but he must be allowed to think, that if they sat down a young gentleman to hear a lecture upon a Monday, brought him to hear another on Tuesday, and then let him alone till the Monday or Tuesday in the following week, the individual would have derived very little advantage from the lecture he had listened to six or seven days before. He (Mr. Pattison) thought that, if they were to proceed somewhat diffe rently, the Company would derive a greater mass of intelligence from this institution than they could derive under the present arrangements. (Hear!) But in that Court it certainly was impossible for Hon. Gentlemen to anticipate all the results of any system of education. There was another ground upon which he ob

jected to the present course of proceeding in this College. The College was divided into four classes or terms. Now it appeared to him, that by a subdivision of superintendance over each of those classes, there would be a better chance, at each term, of twenty-five young inen, for example, being kept in order under the care of one of those tutors or guardians, than of one hundred being kept in order by the collective body of the College-council. On the other hand, he must confess, that this would appear an invidious alteration in the College as respected the Professors, and therefore could not be allowed by them to be advantageous. But lest, in adverting to this sort of proposition, he should appear to be too much encroaching upon the present system of the College, he thought he was entitled to say, that, upon principles of the same kind, their late excellent Director (Mr. Charles Grant), whose loss they had so much reason to deplore, and to whose memory an appropriate tribute had recently been paid, was prepared to encourage some such improvements in an institution, of which he might be said to have been almost the parent.(Hear, hear, hear!)

He (Mr. Pattison) did not know whether he might appeal to the son of that estimable individual for the confirmation of this statement; but if that gentleman (Mr. R. Grant) were present, he could perfectly satisfy the Court upon that matter. Their worthy Chairman had that day told the Court that the College was now in a very flourishing state; that every thing was going on well there in regard to discipline; and that, in point of attainments in science of the students, its character had never stood higher.—(Hear, hear!) Here then he would propose one very simple, but most important consideration: would it be well for the Court to disturb all this prosperity and promise? Might they not live in hope that the evil days had passed away, and would never again return upon them? Certainly his Hon. Friend (Mr. D. Kinnaird) last year had a better case to rest upon, when disturbances had but very recently taken place in the College; that was a better case for such a motion as he now brought forward.-("No, No!" from Mr. Kinnaird.)-Well, then, he would give his Hon. Friend the benefit of his case as it stood at present-(hear!)—and if those disturbances had taken place fifteen months ago-if that was the way in which the matter was to be put-he (Mr. Pattison) should hesitate very much to give his support to a motion that must go to destroy and not to improve.(Hear!) It could hardly be a matter of doubt what the consequence must be of adopting the suggestion of his Hon. Friend in preference to the present system, In the one case, a gentleman anxious to secure for his son

an appointment in India might obtain from the Directors a promise, but on this sort of condition: a Director would say, "You must send your son to Haileybury, and if he continue to be a very good boy (a laugh), why, at the end of two years, he may have a writership." In the other case, the Director might say, "If your son will only undertake to pass a public examination, here is a writership for him instanter." Now what parent, between such an alternative would hesitate at all? Would he not reply, "Do not expose me to the hazard of two years; do not ask me to stake every thing upon my son's good conduct throughout a period of two years pass ed in college, but give me the writership instanter." (Hear!) What then was to become of the institution? This did appear to be, then, very much the same as destroy ing the College-not indeed by assault, but by sap-(a laugh). All these considerations must be coupled with the view that was to be taken of the question, as to the extreme inconvenience that might arise from bringing the whole matter before Parliament. (Hear!) It seemed to him abundantly clear, that in the House of Commons there might be several Hon. Gentlemen who would be good enough to imagine that the East-India Company did not know how to manage their own affairs. (Hear, hear from Mr. Kinnaird.) He presumed that the Hon. Gentleman himself thought so. Now he could not help thinking, under all the circumstances, that a committee chosen from among gentlemen behind the bar, was really much more likely to come to some determination in, this case of a definite and beneficial nature, than a committee appointed by the House of Commons, and composed of Hon. Members, among whom, he might fairly presume, there would be many who would know nothing at all upon the subject. (Hear, hear!) He had now to beg pardon of the Court for having occupied so large a portion of their time ;-(Hear!) but the vast importance of the question before them would furnish his best apology. He could assure the Court, upon his own part, and on the part of his brother Direc.. tors, that if hereafter any inconvenience should arise out of an establishment which was at present in a condition of decided prosperity, they would at least endeavour to put their shoulders to the wheel, and do their utmost to effect its removal. had been said in the course of this discussion, that the Directors had no sort of power over the College Professors; but he could not quite concur with those who made the assertion: the statute upon which it seemed to be founded was the statute in respect to the College Council, and which provided, that if any one of the Professors should misconduct himself, he might be expelled by the vote of the ColAsiatic Journ.-No. 101.

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lege Council, subject to the revision of the Visitor. But in these statutes for the government of the College it was no where said, that if a Professor should improperly demean himself, as, for instance, by being proved to have been guilty of any of the minor vices, it was no where said, nor could it be contended, but that the Directors, with the sanction of the Board of Control, would have as much power to expel them as they would have to expel any other of their servants; and even if an extreme case was supposed, as that a Professor might be guilty of gross misconduct, which should not however have been contemplated by the present statutes, yet there was a power reserved by the Act of Parliament to the Court of Directors, with the assistance of the Board of Controul, to pass a new law, if it should be necessary. In saying this, however, he was only putting an extreme case: and he thought that he should be doing a great and signal injustice to that excellent body of men, the Professors, if he were to put it in any other light, after so many years passed by them in the honourable discharge of their duties in a public and private capacity.—(Hear, hear!) He was still disposed to think that the great evil of this institution was, that it was a little too collegiate; but he was afraid that it could not now be altered, and many reasons might be assigned for this opinion. The collegiate system had now existed for many ages in this kingdom, and the Company and the Government of India enjoyed so many benefits from many who had gone out to the East from Haileybury, that, though undoubtedly he could not hope that his Hon. Friend (Mr. D. Kinnaird) would withdraw his motion, he would yet hope that his Hon. Friend, in the present con dition of affairs, would see reason" to let well alone." He was really satisfied that the adoption of the measure suggested by the motion would produce very considerable inconveniences indeed. (Hear, hear!)

Colonel Baillie considered it to be his duty to submit to the Court his opinion upon the important subject before them; and he would endeavour to do so with that brevity becoming a person unused to address public assemblies, and conscious of his inadequacy to do so with effect. (Hear!) The opinion which he now entertained was decidedly hostile to the proposition of the Hon. Proprietor (Mr. D. Kinnaird), though he was bound in candour to acknowledge that he had long held a different opinion. (Hear, hear !) At an early period of his life, when a member of another institution of this kind (the College of Fort William in Bengal), he thought that a system of instruction, adapted to the peculiar purposes of our Indian Government, must be exercised with a better effect under the immediate VOL. XVII.

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superintendence of the Government by which the students were ultimately to be employed, than under any institution of this country. (Hear!) But subsequent observation and reflection had tended to alter that opinion, and to convince him that a portion of the period of tuition and probation of candidates for the civil service of the Company in India, might be occupied with greater advantage in this country, under a collegiate institution like that of Haileybury, superintended by the Executive Body of the Company; who, being thus enabled to form an accurate judgment of the comparative qualifications and conduct of the youth whom they destined for employment, and rejecting all such candidates as, from mental incapacity or moral depravity, were disqualified from entering on so momentous a trust, might consign to their governments abroad the task of still further improving, if necessary, or otherwise of immediately employing the successful candidates for their service. The grounds of this latter opinion were, first, the view which he took, differing widely from that of the Hon. Proprietor (Mr. Kinnaird), of the original purpose of the institution of Haileybury College; and secondly, his recent observation of its practical results. The Hon. Proprietor, in the beginning of his address, had described, and even gratefully acknowledged the institution of the College of Haileybury, as a boon to the candidates for the civil service of India: but he had deprecated and prayed for the repeal of a certain compulsory clause, which he described as converting that boon into a penalty, and rendering the benevolent design of the Company an object of terror and alarm. Now he (Colonel Baillie) could not consider this institution as a boon, either to the youth of England or to their parents; he viewed it, on the contrary, as a boon to the millions of Indian subjects who are under the dominion of the Company, and as the pledge of their security and happiness. (Hear, hear, hear!) The real boon to our youth, is the civil service of the Company: a station far surpassing in importance, whatever could be offered to them at home. (Hear!) This boon was formerly the gift of patronage, indiscriminating, and often misapplied; it was now, by the institution of Haileybury, restricted to the deserving alone. (Hear!) A new era had thus been created in the government of our Indian empire, to the manifest advantage of the Company, and of its millions of subjects abroad. Far, however, be it from him to affirm, contrary to his own experience and knowledge, that there were not many learned and able civil and military servants of the Company in India, before the institution of either of the colleges: so there were also in EngJand, and in every other nation of the

world, before the foundation of public seminaries of learning. (No, no.) The learning must always exist, in a certain degree, before the general want of it is felt; before measures for its extension can be adopted. (Hear!) But this was no argument against the College originally instituted at Fort William, nor against the subsequent institution at Haileybury, which were meant and calculated to extend by facilitating the acquirement of useful knowledge, and to ensure the prospective supply of able and learned servants for the administration of the Company's affairs. The College of Haileybury, be repeated, was to be considered as a boon, not to the youth of England, nor to their parents-but to the subjects of the Company in India, and as a test of those qualities and acquirements for which the civil service of the Company is the great prize or reward: a prize well worthy of the hazard, or penalty (as the Hon. Mover had termed it), which attended, and ought necessarily to attend every candidate-aye, and every parent of a candidate, who was desirous of obtaining such a prize. But the Hon. Mover (Mr. Kinnaird) had argued, that this test, for every salutary purpose, could be obtained by a public examination. His own (Col. Baillie's) opinion, was the opposite of the Hon. Mover's, and it was founded on a variety of considerations, which he should not trespass on the time of the Court by detailing; more especially as they had been so ably enforced on a former occasion of this debate, by a learned and eloquent Friend of his (Mr. R. Grant), whom he now saw in his place. That Hon. Proprietor had expressed his decided opinion of the superiority of the system of examination which was practised at the College of Haileybury, over that of every other college in England; and his (Col. Baillie's) experience induced him to concur in that opinion with his learned and eloquent Friend. (Hear!) But, if the proposed test were as perfect as he (Col. Ballie) considered it to be ineffective, with a reference to mental acquirements, of what avail could it be thought, with regard to the equally, if not still more important object, of ascertaining the moral character and correct habits of the youth who were destined for such high situations, for duties and trusts so momentous as those of the civil service in India: an object, attainable alone by a course of observation and experience on the part of competent and impartial judges? Was the certificate of a parent, or guardian, or of the single individual head of any ordinary seminary in England, not subjected, like that of Haileybury, to the constant superintendence and controul of the Executive Body of the Company, to be received as a sufficient security, not only for those