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literary acquirements, but also for those fixed principles of rectitude, those established habits of moral discipline and conduct, which form the only rational pledge for the good government of our empire, the welfare, security, and happiness of our vast population in India?

And now of the penalty or risk, as described by the Hon. Mover, which accompanies the efficiency of the test required by the institution of Haileybury, or, to speak in more appropriate terms, as he (Col. Baillie) conceived, of the fair and moderate condition, on which the valuable prize of an appointment to the civil service of India was to be obtained by the candidates for that service. This test, so much deprecated by the Hon. Gentleman-what was it? Why, truly, the mighty sacrifice of two years, or four short terms of attendance on lectures, with decent and irrreproachable conduct, for a period of eighteen months at the college. (Hear!) Was this the grievous penalty of which the Hon. Mover complained? Was this the curse to the youth of England, and to their parents, which accompanied the blessings of good government to so many millions of our loyal subjects in the East? (Hear, hear!) Was this the source of that universal terror and alarm, which the Hon. Mover had described in such powerful and eloquent language, for the purpose of exciting our sympathy with oppressed parents and guardians, compelled to purchase for their children such low and inadequate advantages, on such high and unreasonable terms? (Hear, hear!) For his own part, he must he pardoned when he affirmed, as he could not refrain from affirming, that this penalty was utterly imaginary, and altogether unworthy of such a name. A common tradesman in England suffered more before he hoped for employment. lawyer, the physician, the divine, keeps terms in inns and universities, and is more liable to failure or expulsion than is any of the youth at our College. And wisely, he must be permitted to maintain, had this penalty of expulsion, in certain cases, been ordained: for whom, he would ask, did it affect? the studious? the virtuous? the talented? No: the idle, the immoral, the incapable; and should these latter, again he would ask, be sent out to govern or administer our mighty empire in India? Should our sympathy for such, or for their parents, induce us to impose them on our subjects as persons qualified to govern? For his own part, he was as ready as any man in that Court to sympathize with the errors of youth, and with the disappointed expectations of parents; but he had a higher duty to perform, in providing for the happiness of millions, the good govern. ment of our empire in India, than any feelings of such sympathy could counter

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act, or even palliate the guilt of neglect ing. That duty was, in his judgment, best to be performed, that happiness alone to be secured, by preventing the employment in the civil service of the Company of any one not proved to be qualified for the high and important trusts which must necessarily be committed to him in India.

But expulsion, says the Hon. Mover, is the utter ruin of the unfortunate youth, and a source of lasting distress to the parents-and this statement, to a certain extent, might be true, though it was certainly too highly coloured. Academic honours, and qualification for the learned professions, were the result of talent, application, and good conduct at the other public seminaries of England, as the civil service of the Company was the reward of industry and good conduct at Haileybury. The former were refused to the idle, the incapable, and the refractory, at all the colleges in the kingdom, as was the latter to the same classes in our college: but this was the only punishment, if punishment it could justly be termed, or rather the necessary consequence of voluntary and wilful failure, on the part of the candidate for our service. All other employments and occupations were open to him equally as before; the several learned professions, the army, the navy of England-nay, the army of India, also the Company's military service, with the exception only of its single scientific branch, were open to the rejected candidates at Haileybury, and had often been resorted to with success. Where, then, was the total ruin of the youth, as occasioned by expulsion from the College? and, if so, to whom but themselves, or to their parents, was this just result to be ascribed? A great deal had been said in the debate, of the contagion of idleness and vice supposed to prevail in the College, of the inherent defects in its constitution and discipline, and more especially of the tendency of some of its statutes to vitiate, instead of improving the principles and morals of youth. Those defects might be imaginary or real; that they existed in some degree, he (Col. Baillie) had never doubted nor denied. What human institution was perfect ? Were not similar or greater defects to be found in every college in England? (Hear, hear!) Might not those which were peculiar to this, if there were any, might not every objectionable statute be removed by the Executive Body? (Hear!) They had already done much to improve both the system and discipline of the College; and the beneficial effects of their labours were becoming every day more apparent, in the reports of subordination and good conduct, as well as of literary proficiency, which were regularly transmitted to the Court. That much remained to be donc, he was fully pre

pared to admit; and he trusted that the present discussion, instead of retarding or doing evil, as was feared by some Hon. Proprietors who had spoken, would, on the contrary, accelerate and promote the work of improvement in the College, to the greatest practicable extent. That portion

of the Executive Body (the Committee of College) to whose especial province it belonged, would doubtless give their early attention to remedy all the defects, and repeal the objectionable statutes, particularly that of selection, regarding which so much had been justly said in condemnation, and of which he (Col. Baillie) most cordially wished the repeal. (Hear, hear!) Under all the circumstances of the case-admitting, on the one hand, some defects, but viewing on the other those advantages which were acknowledged by all to have been derived from the institution of the College at Haileybury, he could never conscientiously assent to a proposition like that before the Court, which had an obvious tendency to destroy it. That the College had done much good, he was certain; that it was capable of doing more, he believed; and that we should do much evil by destroying it, or by rendering the use of it optional, as proposed, he could not refrain from expressing the entire conviction of his mind. (Hear, hear!) Before he sat down, perhaps the gallant General (Thornton), who had just risen, would indulge him with one word more. A paper had just been put into his (Col. Baillie's) hands by an Hon. Friend near him, which contained some important information, having reference to an argument that had been used on a former day by an Hon. Proprietor (Mr. Gahagan), respecting two cases of expulsion from Haileybury, the objects of which had been described as "living reflections on the College," in the military service of His Majesty. Now, the two gentlemen in question, who have since their removal from Haileybury become distinguished officers in the army, have had also the candour to acknowledge that their expulsion from the College was not only necessary, but just; and had had a salutary influence on their conduct in their subsequent progress through life.

Mr. Gahagan did not know in what terms the paper from which the Hon. Director had derived his information was expressed, but certainly it did not give a correct representation of the languge that he (Mr. Gahagan) had employed on a former day. (Hear!) He did not say that the gallant individuals in question, "were living reflections on the College at Haileybury;" (hear !) he said that they were striking proofs of the absurdity of some of its regulations. One word more : he must beg leave to deny another part of the statement which had just been made to

the Court; namely, that both those officers now considered that their expulsion was just or proper. He (Mr. Gahagan) knew one of them-indeed, he should be warranted in saying that he knew both; and the last time he saw the officer with whom he was best acquainted, he told him (Mr. Gahagan) that he thought he had been extremely ill-used at the college. (Hear, hear!)

General Thornton would, in a very few words, state his reasons for agreeing to the motion of the Hon. Proprietor (Mr. Kinnaird); and he thought the arguments which had been made use of by the Hon. Director who had last addressed the Court, concurred very much with those which he should have the honour of briefly stating. The last Hon. Director had said, that it seemed to him as if it were on all hands admitted that there were some imperfections in this College. Why, was not this a very strong argument in favour of the Court's going before Parliament on the subject? They had now been going on, with the same conviction before them, for a number of years past. What had been done? Surely the Directors had not been asleep all this time; (A laugh) and yet, if they had exerted themselves at all, it had been without effect. Now, to his (General Thornton's) apprehension, this shewed very clearly the necessity of pe titioning Parliament about the business. It did seem, again, a very hard thing that any gentleman who happened not to have been educated at the college at Haileybury, but who could undergo an examination that would shew him to be fully competent to undertake an appointment in the civil service of India, should not, on account of his not having been entered of this College, be eligible to that service. There could be little doubt but that, to open this principle of eligibility a little more, would tend to correct all the abuses that were complained of in the College. For what would be the obvious consequence of such an alteration? Not that the students who might at present be there would leave the college; but that if gentlemen, after the other plan which had been proposed, could not really, as it had been argued, go through a public examination without being duly qualified, that would be a reason why young men at the College of Haileybury should take care to be themselves duly qualified. (Hear, hear!) The Hon. Director who spoke last had said, that the power of expulsion which these Professors might exercise had this good consequence, that it kept away the idle and the profligate. Now, if that were really the case, he (General Thornton) should be exceedingly favourable to its preservation; but he was very much afraid, on the contrary, that the consequence of the present system of mismanagement

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and bad regulations in this College was, that many a young man of ability and merit, was drawn into some scrape. (Hear!) These misfortunes were generally attributable to the same cause, hardly ever knew of a mutiny in the army that did not originate in mismanagement: perhaps every mutiny that occurred was properly to be ascribed to mismanagement somewhere. The same Hon. Gentleman had said, that similar consequences ensued upon expulsion from a college in either of the universities, that followed upon expulsion from the institution at Haileybury. But this was hardly the case; the fact was not exactly as it had been stated, for in the universities it frequently happened that if some wild young man got himself expelled from one college, he was not necessarily excluded from the chance of being admitted into another, in which case he would still remain a member of the university; but at Haileybury a sentence of expulsion shut out the unfortunate young man from all return to the College. On these grounds he should give his vote for the motion of the Hon. Proprietor.

The Deputy Chairman.-Exhausted as this subject must be felt to be, after a debate of three days, he should not, in the few observations he had to address to the Court, take up much of their time. It had been said, that upon this matter the Court would do well to go before a committee of the House of Commons. Without adverting to those reasons which an Hon. Director had suggested against such a course, he would now merely put it to the Court whether a committee, appointed as they had a right to infer that it would be, appeared the proper tribunal to take cognizance of such a matter. (Hear, hear!) The question had been rather im. properly stated by the Hon. and Gallant General who spoke last, for his arguments had principally referred to what had been stated upon the subject in the year 1817, under circumstances which furnished, it would be recollected, a very different case from that now before the Court. On the present occasion, a variety of objections had been urged by an Hon. Proprietor, the chief of which seemed to be the statute of selection, and that the controul of the Professors had been taken out of the hands of the Directors. Now, in reply, he (Mr. Astell) would only remind him, that it was in the power of the Court of Directors, with the approbation of the Board of Commissioners, to repeal any statute which might be considered objectionable; to make new ones where they might appear requisite; and, in all respects, to remedy whatever was defective in the present code of statutes and regulations. The system pursued at the College was not perfect, any more than that of any other institution; and no gentleman ever contended that it

was. He regretted the existence of imperfections in the College; but while he was bound to acknowledge those deficiencies, he was not disposed to agree to a proposition, the tendency of which he firmly believed (whilst he gave the Hon. Proprietor who introduced the question full credit for entertaining better motives), would be to undermine the very foundation of the institution.- (Hear!) The cause of the frequent discussions on this subject in that Court was, the great disappointment that was felt, both by parents and students, upon the occasion of an expulsion from the College. It was natural, as every one would allow, that a failure in the progress of the students to so valuable an employment should produce great mortification, and he should always sympathize in the regret which was produced in the breasts of parents by such an unhappy event. But that Court must act upon higher motives than those which would teach them to yield unreservedly to the feelings of individuals; they must lay aside those personal considerations for the more imperative calls of duty, and inquire what system of administering their Colleges, whether at Haileybury or Fort William, would be most advantageous to their service. Much as they might be disposed to lament the situation of a disappointed family, they ought not to allow their feelings to get the better of their judgment. He owned he could not get rid of the apprehension that, if this Court once called in the interference of Parliament, they would find that that interposition would not be limited to the correction of the single case presented to their consideration, but would be extended to an inquiry that would comprehend, perhaps, the whole principle of the existence of the College. The Legislature were not bound to carry into effect the suggestions of the Court of Proprietors; and though they might repeal what was described as obnoxious by the Company, yet it by no means followed that Parliament would coincide with the Court in their view of the measure which ought to be adopted as a substitute. Therefore he thought that, upon that objection alone, he had stated sufficient to induce the Court to negative the motion. (Hear!) It was observed, that as the possession of talents and abilities was not likely to be confined to the students of the East-India College, the Court ought not to restrict the eligibility to fill their offices in India to the persons educated at that place. was happy in knowing that genius and talents were to be found in almost every place of instruction. He would add, that he was persuaded that education could be received as beneficially under the auspices of a parent in his own home, as in a public seminary. Great talents and extensive information, he admitted, were to be

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found in many places of instruction, as well those of a public as those of a domestic nature. But the great consideration which arose in his mind, after these admissions, was, that a test would still be wanting, which would supply the means of answering those indispensable inquiries, "what are the intellectual qualifications?" but, above all, "what is the moral character of the candidate?" Let the Court bear in mind, that it was the moral conduct of a person in civil, and equally in military employment, that regulated his advancement. (Hear!) He allowed that an adequate knowledge of classical litera. ture, that a full acquaintance with those branches of education which were deemed necessary in this country, might be ac quired by a student in his father's house : but for a knowledge of the Oriental tongues (an acquisition that was indispensable in a candidate for office in their civil service), the student must go to an institution where these languages were taught. This was a part of the subject which had not been sufficiently insisted on ; and the same observation applied to the necessity of a test being established, for ascertaining the moral character of the student. (Hear!) Whilst he repeated, that the cause of the frequency of the discussions of the system of this College, was the disappointments to which parents were subject, by the punishment of expulsion being made the consequence of the misconduct of their sons; and whilst he gave credit to the Hon. Mover of this question, for being actuated by a strong desire to remove the occasion of these disappointments-he must, however, differ from him in thinking that such would not be the effect of his motion, if successful. In. deed he was persuaded that, under the altered system, as modified, by the success of this motion, the number of disappointments would be tenfold increased. event of the plan now proposed being carried into effect, one of two things must undoubtedly take place. If the examination should be conducted with the serious intention of rigidly inquiring into the proficiency of the student, and not be a mere formality, unproductive in its application, then the consequence would be, that there would be nearly ten failures for the one which happened at present, and many, of course, who were educated with a view to the Company's service, would be found unfit to be sent to India, to the bitter disappointment of their friends. On the other hand, if the examination should turn out to be a mere matter of form, and not really applied as the means of strictly investigating the claims of the candidate, it was obvious that the end to be obtained by examination would be defeated: the Company would no longer find their civil offices in the hands of men prepared for

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the worthy discharge of their duties by education that education, which, by universal consent, was declared to be essential to the creditable administration of their affairs, the benefits of which they were at that moment abundantly reaping. (Hear!) It was, then, with every disposition to treat the feelings of parents and young men with great indulgence, that he would endeavour to impress on the Court of Proprietors the inexpediency of agreeing to this motion; but rather intreat them to oppose it, especially at this time, when they heard so many admissions of the benefits conferred by this College on their servants; when they heard from their Hon. Chairman the uncontradicted statement, that its prosperity was never so firmly established, that it was in a state of the happiest tranquillity and order, that its regulations for preserving discipline were never more cheerfully and universally complied with; and, lastly, when they received a formal assurance that the Court of Directors were actuated by a disposition to supply any deficiency, and add any improvement which their inquiries might discover to be neces sary. (Hear!) Why, then, he begged to ask, should they take out of the hands of the Directors, their Executive Body, where the duty naturally resided, the task of revising the administration of the College? Why would they not, in the homely language which had been already applied to the subject, why not "leave well alone," and abandon the chimerical expectation, that if they succeeded in getting Parliament to repeal this clause, they could prevail likewise on the Legislature to adopt the further proposition that they should submit? He, for one, did not indulge in any such expectation, and therefore firmly and conscientiously gave his opposi tion to the motion.

Sir G. A. Robinson.-" Mr. Chairman: After the very full and minute manner in which the subject has been debated, I shall not attempt to delay you by many observations; but you will excuse me if I draw your particular attention to two points, which appear to be material to the fair consideration of this question.

"An objection has been taken to the discipline of the College, founded on the statement that the time employed by the Professors in giving lectures is too limited; and from what has been stated by the Hon. Director near me (Mr. Bebb), there may be some of the Proprietors who will go away under the impression that the Professors at Haileybury are employed each but four hours in the week in the instruction of the students."

Mr. Bebb." Some, I said, only are employed four hours: some also I know are employed five, nine, and some even ten hours a week."

Sir G. A. Robinson." I am perfectly

aware of what the Hon. Director stated; but I am fearful that the erroneous impression which I have described may be communicated by his mode of expressing himself. I shall therefore refer to the authentic statement of the number of hours employed by the different Profes. sors in each week."

The Hon. Director read from a book which he held in his hand these particulars: "I find the Professors are employed on the following scale: the Principal, Dr. Batten, is employed four hours; the Dean, Rev. C. Le Bas, four; Professor Malthus, five; Sir J. Mackintosh, five; Professor Stewart, nine; Professor Lewton, nine; Professor Walter, nine; Assistant Professor Keene, ten; Assistant Professor Anderson, ten; Professor Haugh

ton, ten.

"Thus we see how the Professors are employed; and in my opinion their time is pretty well occupied. To those who are anxious that the after part of the day should be devoted in some measure to the instruction of the students, it is proper to state, that it is not the custom in collegiate establishments to give evening lectures. At Haileybury, for instance, the young men are supposed to be beyond the age which is fit for the application of scholastic discipline, and the information which I have obtained upon this subject leads me to think, that it would be ex tremely injudicious to employ their time in evening lectures, in addition to those delivered in the course of the day; because the reading young men employ themselves generally in the evening at their books, and those who would arrive at honours must so devote themselves in order to obtain success; now if you make it incumbent on them to attend their Professors in the evening, you may be sure that they will devote but little time to reading in their own rooms. (Hear!) Having disposed of this part of the subject, I now proceed to consider the motion itself. I confess that my chief objection to this proposition is, as has been frequently, and in much better terms, stated by others, that you cannot go before Parliament and ask it to repeal a particular clause and substitute another enactment, with a certainty, that if even you obtain what you require, the Parliament will stop where you would wish to prescribe a limit. I think the motion of the Hon. Proprietor, therefore, carries with it a great deal of danger in that part of it. (Hear!) Referring to other parts of the Hon. Proprietor's plan, I contend that the mode of examination which he contemplates as the most suitable for us to establish, for those candidates who should indiscriminately present themselves, would be most unsatisfactory, not only to the Company and the public, but likewise to

the parents of the students themselves. Among all the objections that have been raised at different times against this institution, I have never heard it suggested that the utmost fairness and impartiality is not observed in the examinations at Haileybury. Will the same result follow from a public and viva voce examination, conducted by and before strangers, to the acquirements of the persons to be examined? Sir, I say no; it will be rather a test of nerve than of acquirements. Besides, let us never forget that as many, if not more instances of disappointment are likely to take place under that new mode of proceeding, than arise out of the present system; I think, therefore, that there is no substantial ground for entertaining the proposition. (Hear!) Though it may not be strictly in order to advert to the statutes of the College, yet so much has been said in reference to one of those regulations, that I shall, I hope, be excused if I add a few words upon the same subject. The gist of the evil ascribed by the Hon. Proprietors who have spoken about the present system of administering the affairs of the College seems to be, the painful disappointment which parents feel in case of the expulsion of their sons. Perhaps I enter as largely as any gentleman can do into the feelings of a father placed in that unfortunate condition. I have a son who has just finished the requisite course of attendance at Haileybury, and I do assure you that, during the period of his residence there, I have spent many an anxious hour, and never laid my head on the pillow without being disquieted by the apprehension that in an unhappy moment he might lapse into some misconduct, or be betrayed into some scheme of insubordination by which he would forfeit his appointment. (Hear, hear!) It is, Sir, under these circumstances that I am free to state my opinion, that the statutes relating to the power of expulsion ought to undergo an amelioration. (Hear, hear!) Sir, it is my deliberate opinion, that the punishment of expulsion should be reserved for acts of moral turpitude. (Hear!) At the same time, I am satisfied that the means of punishment, short of the extreme measure of expulsion, should be vested entirely in the Professors, in order to preserve subordination amongst its members. I confess that any alteration that is to take place, ought to be made with a view rather to increase than diminish the powers placed in the hands of those authorities. I differ in opinion from many of my Hon. Friends, and think that there should exist a greater extent of arbitrary power and discretion in the heads of this College than is generally exercised by the directors of most other institutions of the kind; and differing from the Hon. Proprietor (Mr.

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