other. That as to the negroes who were set at liberty from their masters, and inlisted to join our army, the proclamation of lord Dunmore did not call on them to murder their masters, as had been said in the debate, but only to take up arms in defence of their sovereign; but he was wil

Mr. Rigby pretty strongly declared, that there had been mismanagement somewhere, that it ought to be enquired into, and the nation receive full satisfaction. He vindicated the measure of employing the savages, and said, they might be kept in order, as there was an instance of general Amherst having done it in the late war. In this he alluded to a story told by colonel Barré, that general Amherst had told the savages, that for the future they should not murder any person, upon which 3,000 of them left his camp the next night.

Mr. Fox observed, that the idea of keeping the savages in order, was exactly similar to that of keeping the Americans so. That general Amherst had lost all his men as soon as he attempted it, as this nation had America. He proved, that the Americans had not entered into any treaty with the savages until some months after the date of the English treaty, and shewed that to prove the fact was an additional reason for producing the papers. He likewise observed, that the tone of ministers was greatly altered: formerly it was "God and Nature;" now it was simple "necessity."

Lord North said, that he also was glad that no strangers were admitted on this day, though for another reason, namely, lest they should be worked up into an indignation and horror against the gentlemen on the other side of the House, for declaring sentiments so contrary to those which the honour and dignity of the country demanded. That in respect to the employment of the savages, he looked on it as bad, but unavoidable; that they were of that nature, that if one side did not, they would enter immediately on the

be laid on the table, that, if reprehensible, it might be attended to. That as to cruelty, he had been informed that several of the provincials had been hanged up, by a dozen at a time, for no other crime but that of driving their hogs or cattle to the English camp, which camp was not in any need of provisions, having been completely furnished from the country with as much as would last them months, and therefore the provisions intended to be brought in were for the use of the inhabitants of Philadelphia, not of the army. He called on the military gentlemen in the House to declare, if this proceeding was warranted by the rules of war of any nation whatever.

General Conway said, that the noble lord's question could only be answered by the circumstances of the case. That when a town was besieged or blockaded, and the general who commanded such siege or blockade, had hopes of success by starving the others, and should then pub. lish that no person should bring in provi sions on pain of death, that a breach of such orders would be so punished, and the general excusable; but if starving the enemy was not the point aimed at, they seldom proceeded to such extremities. That it was necessary to know the precise time when Washington had done this (if he had done it) as he believed there was a point of time when the army had not taken Mud-Island, and might be supposed to want provisions.

The House then divided:
Tellers.

in. He stated the number of ships lost by capture, or destroyed by American privateers, since the commencement of the war, to be 733, of which, after deducting for those retaken and restored, there remained 559; the value of which, including the ships, cargoes, &c. amounted, upon a very moderate calculation, to 1,800,6337. 18s. Of these ships, 247 were ships trading to the West Indies and the island of Jamaica. In proof of the correctness of this statement, he produced an account, which he declared he had made out, with the assistance of Mr. Hake, secretary to the subscribers to Lloyd's coffee-house, where a book, containing a faithful register of all the ships that sailed outward, or were entered inward, from and at all the ports in Great Britain and Ireland, with the names of the owners and captains, the account of their last voyage, tonnage, state of repair, and quality, was kept, with the most minute correctness; and from which book his account was taken. The alderman further stated, that the average value of a ship and cargo, trading to Jamaica, was 8,000l. on her outward, 10,000/ on her homeward voyage. That the average value of a ship and cargo, trading to the other West India islands, was 6,060. outward, and 8,000l. homeward. That insurance before the war was 2 per cent. to America, and 24 per cent. to North Carolina, Jamaica, &c. That insurance to America, Africa, and the West Indies, was now more than double, even with the convoy, and without convoy, unless the ship was a ship of force, 15 per cent. That seamen's wages were now raised from 25 and 28, to 55, and in some instances up as high as 65 shillings, per month. That the increased value of sugars, &c. paid the merchants!sufficiently for the increased price of insurance, but the weight fell on the consumer of the commodities exported and imported. That the various articles formerly imported from America, were now considerably advanced in price. Tobacco from 7d. a pound to 2s. 4d. Pitch from 8s. a barrel to 35s. Tar, turpentine, oil and pig iron had risen in the same proportion. Indigo, and some other articles, had increased in price, but not quite so much as the articles above-mentioned. That there had been upon the seas during the war 173 sail of American privateers; the first of which, that the merchants heard of, was the Yankee privateer, ta ken in May 1776. That about 34 of the 173 had been taken ተ

and destroyed by our men of war, cruizers, armed ships, &c. That in the said 173 American privateers, there were at least 13,000 and odd seamen, and 2,000 and odd carriage guns, exclusive of swivels and cohorns. In proof of the correctness of these accounts of the number of American privateers, seamen and guns, the alderman declared, that he made out his list from the letters received by the owners of English ships (which had been taken) from the captains of such ships, who al ways stated in their letters where they were, where they were taken, the names of the captors, the size and tonnage of their ships, the number of their guns, and the number of their men, and also from the Admiralty office account of captures by the King's ships, published in the London Gazette. That he had averaged the men at 80 in each ship, which was a calculation of a very moderate nature, since he believed the number of seamen in the 173 American privateers were nearer 20,000, than 13,000. The alderman gave his opinion, that the manufactories of this kingdom, especially that of iron, were not increased in point of export since the war began; that the American war had been the cause of many bankruptcies; that when the Prohibitory Act passed, there might be about two millions due to the merchants of Great Britain from America; that in the six months allowed by the Act for the continuance of an intercourse between the two countries, the Americans had transmitted about 500,000l. worth of goods, in part of payment of their debts to their creditors at home; that those 500,000l. worth of goods, were they now on hand, would be worth two millions, from the increased price of the various articles; that at present, there was due from America to the merchants of Great Britain, at least 1,500,000l.; that upon an average, the debt was not worth 5s. in the pound; that it was more or less valuable, according to the provinces in which the debtors resided; that in North and South Carolina, and such parts as had not been the seat of war, where the persons of the inhabitants and their property had not been destroyed by fire and sword, the merchants thought their money tolerably safe, should an intercourse be again brought about between Great Britain and America; but that in the province of New York and Pennsylvania, the debts due to English merchants were of little worth; that there was a debt of

72,000l. due in particular to the house in which he had lately been a partner; that, to speak for one, he would gladly sell it for 10s. in the pound. He further stated, that the trade to America and the West India islands, previous to the commencement of the war, might amount to about eleven millions annually. After answering of other questions of a less important nature, the evidence was desired to withdraw.

Beeston Long, esq. was next called. The answers given by Mr. Long to the few questions put to him, confirmed what Mr. Wooldridge had stated, relative to the careful manner in which the register of ships was kept at Lloyd's coffee house, and the general idea of its authenticity which prevailed with the merchants, insurers, underwriters, &c.

Mr. Abraham Hake also corroborated the testimony of Mr. Wooldridge, declaring that he was secretary to the society of merchants at Lloyd's, and that he kept the register books. Mr. Hake also gave proof of the pains that were taken to preserve it from error, and render its authenticity indisputable.

William Creighton, esq. not only corroborated the alderman in the most material points, but added many new facts which had fallen within his own knowledge. He stated the losses suffered by the merchants, in consequence of the captures made by the American privateers, to have amounted to at least two millions in October last, and that by this time they could not be less than 2,200,000. That the first losses of the merchants were occasioned by the prohibition of their sending out a single pound of powder in their ships, which was strictly enforced previous to the merchants being stimulated to petition the privy council, and obtain licenses to arm their ships. That letters of marque were hardly worth taking out, as they were of little service, unless those who had them fell in with an American tobacco ship, and that was as much a matter of chance as the obtainment of a 10 or 20,000l. prize in the lottery. That the windward islands had been most exposed to the depredations of the Americans, from having an insufficient number of ships to guard and protect them. That the island of Tobago, in particular, had for a long time no man of war near it, and that in consequence the Americans had landed and ravaged the plantations, carrying fifty negroes at a time off one estate,

That at length he, with other merchants, had applied in form to the lords of the Admiralty, and desired that two ships might be sent there; that the greatest attention had been paid them at the Admiraltyoffice, and the prayer of their petition had been instantly complied with. That he foresaw that Tobago would share the fate it did, long before it happened from viewing its situation in the charts, and knowing that the ships on the West India station were inadequate to the protection of so many islands. That the prohibition of the merchants having gunpowder on board their ships, merely to prevent powder and ball being conveyed to the rebels, was ill founded, because that as long as America found money, there could be no doubt of her obtaining ammunition, &c.

G. Olive, esq. proved the damage done the Newfoundland traders; fifty of whose ships he declared had been taken, of about the average value of 2,000l. each, beside a great many small vessels, of about 2 or 300l. value upon the banks.-Upon his cross-examination, he declared that the trade was much improved of late, and that in consequence of the Americans being deprived of the means of pursuing it, we sent more fish to Bilboa and the foreign markets than ever, and that if men and ships could be procured, it would turn out a very beneficial branch of commerce; but that the fishermen's price was increased from 8 to 14/. a voyage, and the seamen's wages from 35 to 70s. a month.

John Shoolbred, esq. of Mark-lane, declared himself an African merchant and an under-writer. He confirmed the accounts of the book at Lloyd's, and stated that the African trade had been materially injured in consequence of the American war: that upwards of 200 sail were generally engaged in that trade, previous to the war: that not a fourth of that number, not above 40 ships, were now sent out: that 15 of the ships and cargoes had been taken by the Americans: that the average value of the cargo of a ship to Africa, outwards, was about 7,000l. and her homeward freight of slaves worth about 9,000l.: that each slave was worth at least 351.: that the value of the ships lost was 140,0007. upon a very moderate calculation: that the first ship was taken in March, 1777; the Americans not having before that time any market to carry the cargo of African ships to; and that all the ships were taken near, and most of them in sight of Barbadoes, after having got over every

natural risk of the voyage.-Upon his cross-examination, he allowed, that those who carried on the African slave trade formerly, had lately sent ships to fish on the coast of Africa; that the whale trade there promised to turn out exceedingly advantageous, and that this trade was formerly enjoyed by the Americans.

Edward Payne, esq. of Cornhill, proved little new; he chiefly corroborating what the other witnesses had said.

The lords who principally concerned themselves in the examination of these witnesses were the dukes of Richmond, Bolton and Manchester; the marquis of Rockingham, lords Effingham and Camden. The Lord President, and lords Sandwich, Dunmore, Sondes, Lyttelton, and Derby.

Feb. 9. The order of the day being read, for taking into further consideration the State of the Nation, the House went into a Committee.

The Earl of Sandwich said, that the noble duke (of Richmond) had brought a number of persons to prove certain facts relative to the commerce of this country; that in order to prevent an ex parte evidence from going abroad, without having the other side enquired into, such as what losses the rebellious colonies had sustained, to balance our loss, he would beg permission to call Mr. George Gostling.

The Duke of Richmond objected to this motion as informal; he said he would by no means endeavour to preclude his lordship from bringing what evidences he pleased relative to this enquiry, provided he produced them in a proper time; that his evidences lay open to his lordship's cross-examination, and he had it in his power to controvert or dispute any thing adduced; but now to take up another matter, before the former was disposed of, was, in his opinion, unparliamentary, and not dealing with that candour which he expected from the noble lord. That, in respect to himself, he appealed to their lordships, whether he did not, in every stage of this enquiry, previously acquaint their lordships of the substance of his intended motion.

The debate on this became general, the Lord Chancellor, lords Sandwich, Gower, Lyttelton and Bristol, contending for the propriety of lord Sandwich's motion; the dukes of Richmond, Grafton, and lord Camden, opposing it: the Committee divided; Contents 66; Non-contents 25.

Mr. George Gostling was ordered to the bar, who, upon several questions put to him, answered substantially as follows: That he was a proctor in the court of Admiralty. [Here lord Sandwich delivered him in a list of prizes taken from the Americans, to the number of 38, and asked him whether he could swear to the condemnation of these ships? Mr. Gostling answered, he could, except two out of the list, which were then under condemnation. Aye, says my lord, that is the same thing.] Mr. Gostling then said, there were eleven more to be added to this list which were considered as Droits of Admiralty. Being cross-examined by the duke of Richmond, whether ships under condemnation were the same as ships absolutely condemned? He answered not, however probable it was they would be so. In respect to the value and appropriation of the cargoes, he answered, he could not exactly state the former, but the general appropriation of them were two-thirds to the captors, upon lawful prizes, and one-third when they were Droits of Admiralty. Being asked how the residue of the money was applied, and whether it was not given to discharge arrears of several of the officers of the Admiralty? He replied he had heard so. And being further asked by what law, or precedent the judges disposed of that money, and whether he, as a practitioner, could recollect any precedent for it being disposed of thus optionally? He said, he could not; but that he believed there were some precedents for it in queen Anne's wars.

Mr. Samuel Enderby deposed substantially as follows: That since the Prohibitory-Act, a new trade had been carried on in the southern fisheries of America, in which he was a considerable adventurer; that there were 15 ships then on the trade, and that their average tonnage was 170 ton each, and that the spermaceti whale was much more considerable in value than the common whale formerly taken. [Here lord Sandwich made a calculation, that supposing these ships brought but 100 tons each, the calculation would be 105,000l.] Being examined by the duke of Richmond and lord Camden, he said, that the general freight back run from 40 to 50 ton only, that he could not tell what might be their success this year, as the ships were not expected until about June; but he hoped it would be still increasing. He likewise spoke of two other fisheries, one on the coast of Africa, and the other