running northward from that point to the Hudson's Bay territory, or that it meant the territory northward from this south line to the Hudson's Bay territory. The second is the construction which, I will shew your Lordships, was intended. The Act does not give a northern boundary at all in any view of the language.

The LORD CHANCELLOR.-No, the line goes "northward to the southern boundary of the territory granted to the Merchants Adventurers of England trading to Hubson's Bay.'

Mr. MOWAT.-Yes; and if you treat the word "northward" as referring to a line, you merely get to a point on the territory of the Hudson's Bay Company, and you have nothing in the Act to shew how our northern boundary is to run from that point.

Sir MONTAGUE SMITH.-Do you say the line follows the Mississippi bank northerly?

Mr. MOWAT.-Yes, that is our construction.

Lord ABERDARE. That would give you the territory which the arbitrators gave you.

Mr. MOWAT.-Yes, and that is our construction now. The construction in times past was that "northward" would embrace (to use the language of this very Act) "all the territories, islands and countries in North America belonging to the Crown of Great Britain, bounded on the south" by that line which is described. And if so, when you have got to the source of the Mississippi, the whole of the British territory north formed part of Quebec. If you draw a due north line from the source of the Mississippi, that would give us all I need in order to sustain the arbitrators' award on the merits; but by such a line you would leave out the French colonies and settlements in the North-West; and the statute did not mean to leave them out-it meant expressly to take them in. That was the very object of the statute. There is no distinction between the French colonies and settlements in one part of Canada and the French colonies and settlements in another part of Canada. Wherever they were, it was intended to bring them into the British Province of Quebec; and if so, the only way of construing the Act is that the word "northward" refers to the whole territory north of the described line up to the territory of the Hudson's Bay Company. That construction would embrace them all.

The LORD CHANCELLOR.-Do you read it thus:

Along the western boundary of the said Province until it strike the river Ohio; and along the bank of the said river, westward, to the banks of the Mississippi; and along those banks, northward, to the southern boundary of the territory granted to the Merchants Adventurers of England trading to Hudson's Bay?"

Mr. MOWAT. That is a reading which would be sufficient to give Ontario an area as large as the arbitrators have given; but it appears that Parliament did not even intend the Province to be limited in that way.

Lord ABERDARE,-Your contention is, that whenever you get up to the point of the Mississippi, everything directly northward of that, or northwards of a line drawn through the source of the Mississippi, which was English territory, and was not included in the Hudson's Bay territory, was a part of Quebec.

Mr. MOWAT.-Exactly so, my Lord.

The LORD CHANCELLOR.-Do you say the Hudson's Bay territory extended from what is called "northward" of the Mississippi ?

Mr. MOWAT.-Yes, from some point to the northward of the source of the Mississippi.

The LORD CHANCELLOR.-Is that contended?

Mr. MOWAT.-Yes, that is contended.

The LORD CHANCELLOR.-So this would be intelligible if you follow the banks of the Mississippi until you come to its source, and then, according to the argument on the other side, there you meet with the southern boundary of the Hudson's Bay territory.

Mr. MOWAT.-They are not content, my Lord, with that construction, judging from the observations of my friend Mr McCarthy in opening. What he said was that we are limited by a north line from the junction of the Ohio and the Mississippi, leaving a space between the meridian of the junction and the Mississippi. The LORD CHANCELLOR.-The source of the Mississippi seems to be on a line which is nearly due north to, and nearly coincides with, the yellow [referring to the line of the meridian of the most north-western point of the Lake of the Woods as shewn on the Ontario Boundary Map of 1884].

Mr. MOWAT. The arbitrators appear to have taken that view of it, deciding that point against the old contention.

The LORD CHANCELLOR.-If the territory of the Hudson's Bay Company can be brought down to Turtle Lake,* then there could be no difficulty in considering the Act of 1774 in that way?

Lord ABERDARE.-Unless the southernmost boundary of the Hudson's Bay Company were brought down also farther west.

The LORD CHANCELLOR.-According to this preamble, you would stop at the point you reached when you got to the end of the Mississippi, and for that point to coincide with the southern boundary of the Hudson's Bay territory, the words "northward to the southern boundary" would mean "northward along the banks the Mississippi until you come to the southern boundary of the Hudson's Bay. Company's territory," and then you stop; and there your southern line stops. You are presumed to have met with the southern boundary of the Hudson's Bay Company, because it says "northward to the southern boundary of the" Hudson's Bay territory.

Mr. MOWAT.-We must consider for a moment what the treaty of cession says with respect to that, and what it cedes. I apprehend it to be this clearly: As all Canada is ceded, and as the Mississippi is to be the division between French territory and English territory, then you would draw a line due west from the Mississippi, and south of that would be French, and north of that would be English, whether it belonged to the Hudson's Bay Company or not.

I have said that unless that construction is adopted you exclude French colonies and settlements. Further, what alone is sufficient, I submit, to demonstrate that this territory is to be included is this: there was no other government provided for the British territory which is said by the opposite construction to be excluded from the operation of the Act. While this Act gives a government to the Province of Quebec, with the description contained here, neither this Act, nor any other Act, nor any executive act, gave any government whatever to the territory said to be excluded.

The LORD CHANCELLOR.-Are you still on the Hudson's Bay territory? Mr. MOWAT.—I am dealing with the territory to which the Hudson's Bay Company were not entitled.

I am seeking to prove that it is not a due north line from the confluence of the Ohio and the Mississippi which is contemplated here. If the word "northward" in the Act means a due north line from the confluence of the Ohio and the Mississippi, then you cut off 7,000 square miles of territory south of the height of land, of which Upper Canada, and the Province of Canada, and the Dominion of Canada before the settlement with the Hudson's Bay Company, may be said to have been in undisturbed possession, granting lands in it, and exercising juris* One of the two farthest sources of the Mississippi-the other being Lake Itasca.

diction over it. It is marked on one of our maps with striped lines in order to shew what the territory is [producing the Ontario Boundary Map of 1884]. I had this made for the purpose of making the argument a little more easy.

Sir MONTAGUE SMITH.-Where on the map is the confluence of the two rivers?

Sir ROBERT COLLIER.-Down at the bottom of the purple line.

The LORD CHANCELLOR.-If you strike due north from the confluence, it seems to coincide exactly with the line separating the tract coloured pink, from that striped with yellow and pink crosswise.

Mr. MOWAT.-Yes, and they have been striped in order to make that clear. Lord ABERDARE.-Was this portion which was granted by the award, ever claimed as a portion of the Hudson's Bay territory-down to the Rainy River— down to the United States boundary?

Mr. MOWAT.-They did claim a portion of it. They never claimed that portion which was south and east of the height of land-here, in the western portion of the Province [pointing on the map].

Lord ABERDARE.-Is that marked here?

Mr. MCCARTHY.-It is on the map which I handed in first.

Lord ABERDARE.-In this coloured portion. Did the Hudson's Bay Company claim this as hunting grounds included in their grant of 1670? Is that coloured portion a part of the territory claimed to have been granted to the Hudson's Bay Company?

Mr. MCCARTHY.-Part was, and part was not.

Lord ABERDARE.-The contention is, that the whole of that which was northward of the Mississippi belonged to the Hudson's Bay Company?

Mr. MOWAT. It is only later in the century that the Hudson's Bay Company made the claim to that extent.

I want to shew that the old Province of Quebec was not confined within these narrow limits of the due north line from the confluence of the Ohio and the Mississippi, and I have mentioned some things which shew this; but there are others also. Immediately after the passing of this Act, a commission was issued to the Governor-General, Sir Guy Carleton,* and that commission describes the Province of Quebec which was to be under his government as being bounded by the bank of the Mississippi to its source. It is at page 375; and it appears to have gone, in the usual course, to the law officers of the Crown, to ascertain whether, as matter of

* BOUNDARY DESCRIPTION IN IMPERIAL COMMISSION TO Governor-General Carleton oF QUEBEC, 27TH DECEMBER, 1774.

And further know you, that we, reposing especial trust and confidence in the prudence, courage and loyalty of you, the said Guy Carleton, of our especial grace, certain knowledge, and mere motion, have thought fit to constitute and appoint you, the said Guy Carleton, to be our Captain-General and Governor-in-Chief in and over our Province of Quebec, in America, comprehending all our territories, islands and countries in North Ameaica, bounded on the south by a line from the Bay of Chaleurs, along the highlands which divide the rivers that empty themselves into the river St. Lawrence from those which fall into the sea, to a point in forty-five degrees of northern latitude, on the eastern bank of the river Connecticut, keeping the same latitude directly west, through the Lake Champlain, until, in the same latitude, it meets with the river St. Lawrence; from thence up the eastern bank of the said river to the Lake Ontario, thence through the Lake Ontario, and the river commonly called Niagara, and thence along by the eastern and south-eastern bank of Lake Erie, following the said bank until the same shall be intersected by the northern boundary granted by the charter of the Province of Pennsylvania, in case the same shall be so intersected, and from thence along the said northern and western boundaries of the said province, until the said western boundary strikes the Ohio; but in case the said bank of the said lake shall not be found to be so intersected, then following the said bank until it shall arrive at that point of the said bank wnich shall be nearest to the north-western angle of the said Province of Pennsylvania, and thence by a right line to the said northwestern angle of the said province, and thence along the western boundary of the said province until it strikes the river Ohio, and along the bank of the said river, westward, to the banks of Mississippi, and northward, along the eastern bank of the said river, to the southern boundary of the territory granted to the Merchants Adventurers of England trading to Hudson's Bay, and also all such territories, islands and countries which have, since the tenth day of February, one thousand seven hundred and sixty-three, been made part of the Government of Newfoundland as aforesaid, together with all the rights, members and appurtenances whatsoever thereunto belonging.

law, it corresponded with the provisions of the Act. The law officers were very eminent men: Mr. Thurlow (afterwards Lord Thurlow) and Mr. Wedderburn (afterwards Lord Loughborough). Your Lordships will find that the language is, that Sir Guy Carleton was appointed

"Governor-in-Chief in and over our Province of Quebec, in America, comprehending all our territories, islands and countries in North America, bounded on the south-" and so on. Then follows a description precisely the same as that in the Act, with this difference: the language is

"—and along the bank of the said river, westward, to the banks of Mississippi, and northward, along the eastern bank of the said river, to the southern boundary of the territory granted to the Merchants Adventurers of England trading to Hudson's Bay." So the commission is expressly that the western boundary was along the eastern bank of the river; and it was to include, your Lordships will observe, and under it the Province of Quebec is expressly declared to comprehend, "all our territories, islands and countries in North America," bounded in the way described. There is no exception of any portion of these territories,. islands and countries; the commission was to include them, wherever they were to be found.

Now, that was a commission issued immediately after the Act. It shews the mind of the government and parliament at that time, and negatives the construction which the other side endeavour to place upon the Act. I presume too there is no ground whatever for suggesting that the commission is not admissible evidence for this purpose. Further, this being an old Act-over a hundred years old-I submit that it would be in accordance with authorities to look at, for example, the debates in parliament, which are not usually looked at for the purpose of construing an Act of Parliament, but which yet has been done in a large number of cases.

The LORD CHANCELLOR.-I want to get the dates right. I see the date of Sir Guy Carleton's commission is 27th December, 1774. We do not know when the Act received the royal assent, but I see the session of parliament in which it was passed ended upon the 13th of January, 1774; at least it seems to be so stated. If so, the Act must have been passed before Sir Guy Carleton's commission. It is very possible that the Act may have passed before.

Mr. MOWAT.-It was before.

The LORD CHANCELLOR.-Yes, I see it is nearly twelve months before. Mr. MOWAT.-The exact date of the passing of the Act was the 13th January, 1774.

[Adjourned for a short time].

Mr. MOWAT.-My Lords, I have urged the construction of the Act to be, that Quebec was to include all territory north of the described south line. I have urged this upon several grounds. I have urged that it sufficiently appears from the language of the Act, without any extraneous evidence. Secondly, that it further appears from the fact that any other construction would exclude the French colonies and settlements on the east bank of the Mississippi, and also in the North-West territory. I have urged that that construction is further confirmed by the terms of the commission issued immediately afterwards to the Governor-General; and I was going to refer then to the proceedings upon the Bill, contending, in the case of so old an Act as this, that it was proper enough, and consistent with the authorities, to refer to those proceedings. My reference will be a very short one, and the proceedings will make it very clear that the construction intended was the one which I put upon this Act.

The LORD CHANCELLOR.-We must pause before we allow you to travel into that line of argument. What authority have you for the proposition that what was said by any gentleman in parliament is to be admissible as construing an Act of Parliament? If the opinion of Sir Francis Hincks is not admissible to construe an award made by arbitrators of whom he was one, how can the opinion expressed when a Bill is before parliament by any particular member be admissible to construe the Act?

Mr. MOWAT.-What I was going to shew was the terms of the Bill as it originally stood, mentioning the changes that had occurred which create the difficulty, and shewing why those changes had been made, and that the changes have nothing to do with any limitation of the extent of territory which the province was to have on the west, and on the north.*

The LORD CHANCELLOR.-You must give us some authority for the use of such matters as evidence. At least they can only express the views of particular members as to what they supposed was in controversy.

Mr. MOWAT.-My object is rather to point to the changes made in the matter of the Bill, in its progress through the House and through committee, in illustration and support of my contention. But, for the present, I will pass that point.

I have pointed out that no other provision was made for any other part of French Canada north of that line by means of this Act. I may further mention, in connection with that observation, that before the cession, and while the territory was French, it was under the jurisdiction of the Governor of Canada, which is a circumstance to indicate that the same course would have been followed by the English. No reason has up to this moment been suggested, from any source whatever, why any portion of French Canada should not have been included in the Province of Quebec. Whatever reason there was for putting any portion in, applies beyond any sort of doubt to the whole of French Canada-to the whole of Canada that belongs now to Great Britain, and which was not owned by the Hudson's Bay Company.

My Lords, these are the principal grounds on which, if we have to rest entirely on the Act of 1774, without anything further, I submit it appears that the whole of British Canada, not including anything that was owned by the Hudson's Bay Company, was included in the Province of Quebec.

But the argument does not rest there. There are other grounds that establish the same thing. In 1783, the treaty between Great Britain and the United States was entered into, by which a very large part of Canada was ceded to the United

* The description in the Bill as it first stood was: "all the said territories, islands and countries, heretofore a part of the territory of Canada, in North America, extending southward to the banks of the River Ohio, westward to the banks of the Mississippi, and northward to the southern boundary of the territory granted to the Merchants Adventurers of England trading to Hudson's Bay, and which said territories, islands and countries are not within the limits of some other British colony, as allowed and confirmed by the Crown, or which have, since the 10th of February, 1763, been made part of the government of Newfoundland

Mr. Edmund Burke, then a member, objected in the interest of the Province of New York, whose British Agent he was, that this was not a boundary of certainty as between that province and Quebec, and he moved the one which he had proposed, as follows, viz. :-"a line drawn from a point on the east side of Lake Champlain, in 45 degrees north latitude, and by a line drawn in that parallel west to the River St. Lawrence, and up that river to Lake Ontario, an 1 across that lake to the River Niagara, and from Niagara across Lake Erie to the north-west point of the boundary of Pennsylvania, and down the west boundary of that province, by a line drawn from thence, till it strikes the Ohio."

These words down to and inclusive of "thence" were inserted; and the words-"until it strike the Ohio; and along the bank of the said river, westward to the banks of the Mississippi, and northward to the southern boundary of the territory of the Merchants Adventurers of England trading to Hudson's Bay and also all such territories, islands and countries which have, since the 10th of February, 1763, been made part of the government of Newfoundland, be, and they are hereby, during His Majesty's pleasure, annexed to and made part and parcel of the Province of Quebec, "-were next read.

:

These amendments of the committee were reported to the House; and the clause as finally agreed to by the House is as it stands in the Act. (See Joint App. pp. 370-374.)