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motion for recommitting this bill, that he had the previous sanction various objections were made to of his Majesty's ministers; for its principle, which were replied a committee of their own appointto by its friends. The House then ment had been named in the last year went into a committee, and a by the lords of the treasury for purdesultory conversation took place poses under which this subject paron its several clauses. The bill ticularly fell. They were confined afterwards passed.
in their operations to all offices In the House of Lords it was created since the commencement introduced by the Earl of Liver. of the war in 1793. The office of pool, who briefly stated its objects, third secretary of state had been on June 10th. The Earl of Lau- created in 1794 ; and how it could derdale spoke against it, but no escape the notice of the committee division being proposed, the bill was to him quite unintelligible. was read a third time, and passed. All (the right hon. gentleman
It is observable, that when the said) that he had now to do, was first mention was made of an in- to make out a case strong enough tention of introducing such a bill, to refer the subject to the examiby the Chancellor of the Exche nation of a committee. The inquer, the sum of money which he crease of colonies since 1792, was spoke of proposing was between all that he had to meet. These one and two millions. But the were, in fact, nine in number, for actual sum contained in his two he would not include Heligoland, resolutions amounts only to nor yet St. Helena. Four of these 750,000l, and it does not appear were in the West Indies, three in that any thing farther was re the East Indies, and two in the quired.
Mediterranean. Those in the West Indies were nowise connected with those in the East
Indies, and neither of them with COLONIES.
those in the Mediterranean. His On April 29th, Mr. Tierney rose proposal was therefore to make to renew, in point of substance, over the four first to the home though not of form, a motion re- department; the three next to the lative to the abolition of the office board of control, and (said he) of third secretary of state for the they might add St. Helena, though colonies, in which he had been de- it would not give much additional feated during the sessions of the trouble; as it might rather be last year. He now intended to considered as a gaol under the move for a committee to inquire care of the police of Europe. into that subject ; not, he said, Malta should belong to the foreign that there were any doubts in his secretary. As to the lonjan own mind as to the propriety of islands, he scarcely knew how to abolishing the office; but because speak, whether they were our own he saw that in questions of this or not; but he apprehended that kind, he had not the smallest the nature of Sir Thomas Maitchance of success in any other land's connexion with them was way. One great inducement for not colonial, but purely political. him to undertake this subject was, After various other observations
THIRD SECRETARY OF STATE FOR
on the subject, partly serious and but the fact was otherwise; for partly sarcastic, he concluded by the war had only made a differmoving, “ That a committee be ence of about 500 pages per appointed to take into considera annum, and the remainder was tion the business now remaining occasioned by the ordinary influx to be executed by the secretary of of business. This difference, in a state for the war and colonial de great degree, was imputed by the partment, and to report their opi- right hon. gentleman to the exnion, whether the continuance of tension of education in every quarthe same be any longer necessary; ter of the empire, which has afand whether the duties performed foriled to almost every person in by the said department may with- public life, the opportunity of adout inconvenience to the public dressing the different offices of service be transferred to any other government. It was this which offices, and with what diminution hard created the necessity for a of charge.”
third secretary of state, and had Mr. Goulburn said, that the increased the public business beperiod which had elapsed between yond all former precedent. the first institution of the colonial Mr. Wilberforce declared, that department in 1768 and 1782, from all he knew and heard of would form a fit subject of com- the office in question, it was overparison with that which had loaded with business; and such, elapsed between 1802 and 1816; from what he understood, was for which purpose he would take the case in the home department. the pages of entry in the books of The House then should duly cono:lice as a fir criterion. In the sider, whether the business of 14 years of the first period, the the colonies would be exposed to number of pages for twelve colo- any neglect by acceiling to the nie; amounted to 3139, giving an proposed arrangement. He was average of about 221 for ea h of opinion that it required an inyear. The same twelve colonies dividual of great consideration to in the second period filled a num- look after concerns su important ber of pages amounting to 6098, to the public interests: a person forming an average of about 4:35 who should hold a high station in for each year; so that the quan- the public eye. The saving of tity of business in these colonies 19,000l. a year was, doubtless, a was nearly doubled. But if the serious consideration, but the whole business of the North Ame- question was, whether the saving rican colonies be added to that of of 12,0001, a year would not be the twelve above stated, and op- much too dearly purchased ty posed to each other in the two hazarding the good government periods, the disparity would be of the colonies. It appeared to found infinitely greater. The num- him, ihat the superintendence of ber of pages written from 1708 our colonial concerns should conto 1782, averages 446 per annum; stitute the business of a distinct, whilst that from 1802 to 1916 efficient, and d gnified depart. rises to 1994. It might be sup- ment. posed that the increase in the latter Mr. Punsonby, in allusion to the period was occasioned by the war: last speaker, and the compliments
he had bestowed upon the mover having been applied to by the of the question, said he was one Roman Catholics of Ireland to who would give any thing to a bring their case under the consiman but his vote. He proceeded deration of the House, he now to say, that there was only one proceeded to discharge the duty solid reason that could be urged. he had undertaken. The resoluagainst the present motion, and tion which he intended to move that was, that the departments was the same which was carried among which the business of the in 1813, and does no more than colonies was proposed to be di- to pledge the House to examine vided, were already over-worked the penal laws, with a view to rewith their own separate concerns. lieve the Catholics, to give every But none of those persons stepped security possible to the Protestant forward to make such a declara- establishment, and ultimately to tion, because they knew full well satisfy all ranks and orders of that the state of the case would men in the empire. He proceeded not bear them out. After all to say, that the present question (said he) what was the motion ? was not about the means by which Did it invite the House at once to securities might be effected, but abolish the office ? All his right whether any securities whatever Hon. Friend wanted was, that they will be received. There is a comshould go into an inquiry whether munication between the Pope and they could save 12,000l. a year to the Catholic clergy, which must the country.
end either in incorporation with After some other speakers had the see of Rome, or connexion delivered their opinion on both with the government of Enysides, the House divided, when land; and if the latter be refused, i there appeared, For the mo. will be dangerous to the safety tion 87, Against it 190: Ma- of England. jority 103.
The right hon. gentleman, who
reserved himself for a reply, now ROMAN CATHOLIC QUESTION moved, “That this House will re
solve itself into a committee of On May 9th, Mr. Grattan, on the whole House, to take into rising to submit to the House of its most serious consideration the Commons his motion on the sub- state of the laws affecting his ject of the Roman Catholic claims, Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects moved that the petition of the in Great Britain and Ireland, with Roman Catholics of Ireland to a view to such final and conciliathe House, presented on April 26, tory adjustment as may be con1816, should be read. This being ducive to the peace and strength done accordingly, Mr. W. Elliot of the United Kingdom, to the next moved, that the petition of stability of the Protestant estab. the Roman Catholics of England lishment, and to the general satispresented on May the 21st, 1816, faction and concord of all classes should also be read; which was of his Majesty's subjects." done.
The motion having been seMr. Grattan then said, that conded and put from the chair, VOL. LIX.
Mr. Leslie Foster rose, and after treated by the different powers of stating the character of the two Europe, which he borrowed from parties into which the Irish Ca. the work of Sir J. C. Hippesley. tholics were divided during the He concluded, We have thus, Sir, last year, he proceeded to show looked around Europe, and seen what the conditions are on which Calvinists, and Lutherans, and they seem now agreed. The no- Roman Catholics, and Christians mination of the Bishops has for a of the Greek communion, agreelong time heen as practically do- ing in two propositions : first, mestic as any possible arrange- that the patronage of the higher ment can make it. When a see stations of the Catholic clergy is vacant, a recommendation is must be vested in the state ; and forwarded to Rome from Ireland, secondly, that the most vigorous and within memory not more superintendence must be exerthan two or three instances have cised over all their communicaoccurred of any difficulty in con- tions with the see of Rome. And firming this choice. Lately, it is therefore, when the right honoursaid, the persons thus nominated able gentleman asks, whether this in Ireland have been the coadju- country will continue to be the tors of the deceased bishop, who only great nation that shall perhas been selected by the bishop in sist in intolerance, I say, that his his life-time. The transmission question rather ought to be, wheof the episcopal rank has there ther this nation will determine to fore, in practice, been a mere be the only one in Europe which matter of testamentary bequest. shall consent to place the Roman Some persons, it seems, now pro- Catholic religion in a situation so pose that the elections shall here. free from all practical control, as after be made by the deans and to form a complete imperium in chapters ; but if they should, will imperio within its bosom. this mode be either less domestic, Mr. Yorke said, that the great or more conducive to give satis- difficulty he had always found of faction to a Protestant, than the bringing this question to a satispresent? The proposition of do- factory result was the foreign inmestic nomination is distinctly fluence ; and no consideration this-that the Protestants and could induce him to yield in any Catholics having each much to material degree to the petitions of require, and much to give up, the the Roman Catholics, but the prosProtestants are to cede all that pect of security to the Protestant remains, and the Catholics are to establishment from such an influmake the single concession of re- ence. In formerly giving his maining exactly as they are, as the opinion on this subject, he had ground of being admitted to a always said, that he thoughtit could complete participation of poli- only be usefully taken up when tical power.
the Pope was master of himself. After some discussion of the This was now the case; and the principle of the veto, Mr. L. F. question appeared to stand upon proceeded to the consideration of more favourable ground with rethe manner in which the Pope is spect to any communications that
might be necessary with the holy done. In order to understand see; it also appeared to stand exactly the proposed plan of domore favourably with respect to mestic nomination of all future the petitioners themselves. First, bishops, it was necessary that the they stated themselves to be will. House should know the proceeding to acquiesce in the form of ings which now took place for the oath proposed to them in the filling a bishop's see when vacant. bill of 1813. Secondly, as to the The bishops of the province in nomination of bishops, it was, in which he had been situated ashis opinion, necessary to take away sembled together, and having confrom the Pope the virtual nomi- sulted with the priest of the vacant nation of the Catholic bishops in diocese, named certain persons as this kingdom ; and if this plan fit to be chosen by the Pope for were adopted, he was not inclined the new bishop. It had been to forebode more danger to the nearly the constant practice of the church establishment from hence, Pope to choose the person whose than from the elections without name stood first on the list ; but the interference of government in there was no law to compel him the church of Scotland. There to do so. It was to exclude the was a third point not taken notice possibility of any such proceedof in the Catholic petitions, which ing, and to render all future apappeared to him of importance pointments entirely those of the with regard to security; which Catholic Irish priests and bishops, was that of the regium exequatur, that it was now proposed that the or regium placitum, which ad Pope should issue a concordat by mitted the right of all govern, which he should bind himself to ments to inspect every bull, re- appoint no person to be a bishop script, or other document coming in Ireland, except such as should from Rome, previous to publica- be in the first place elected by the tion, and of authorising it (except Irish clergy themselves. It was in cases relating merely to points' then proposed by the Catholic of conscience), in the same manner bishops to have the following proas in all the other states of Eu- visions inserted in every bill. rope, Catholic or Non-Catholic. [These were provisos stipulating This, he supposed, would not be that no Roman Catholic clergyobjected to by any rational Roman man shall be elected a bishop who Catholic as a measure of security, is not a native of his Majesty's to which he, for one, looked for- dominions, and who has not taken ward as an essential part of any an elective oath guarding church future arrangement.
and state from any future danSir Henry Parnell returned gers.] As the Pope had commuthanks to Mr. Yorke for his very nicated his readiness to give his valuable, cordial, and conciliating consent to this plan of electing speech; and he hoped to be able the bishops by a larger number to satisfy him that the Catholics of clergy than had hitherto been were perfectly willing to do all concerned in the nomination, and those things which the right hon also to grant the necessary congentleman required should be cordatum to bind himself to give