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tion and under our doctrine of separation of powers we use the judicial system to determine questions of guilt or innocence. Mr. WATsoN. Then you are fearful of the procedures. As I understood, I thought you made the statement that you wished that the legal authorities would move forward in this field and they have not. Mr. MITCHELL. That is right. Mr. WATson. Did I misunderstand your position, or do you want to modify it? Mr. MITCHELL. I don't want to modify it. I would like to restate it. I said that I knew that the Government of the United States had information which would indicate the guilt of the persons involved in these crimes that I have mentioned. By Government, I meant the executive branch, which of course is the Department of Justice. I indicated that for reasons best known to themselves they have not submitted this to a grand jury. I was attempting to give you my more or less animal reaction to that, and that is that emotionally I wish that somehow or other we could get this into the works and get something done. But when reason takes over I know that, if we are to preserve the system of government under which we live, even those accused of the most dastardly crimes have to have their day in court and until a court does get those cases and makes some determination of them the people are presumed to be innocent. Mr. WATson. Mr. Mitchell, I am not defending the press at all because I have had my grievances with them, too. But did I understand you to say or imply that the irresponsible conduct of some individuals in the field of civil rights and racial disturbances should be exonerated Or perhaps overlooked because they happened to receive great play in the press? . MITCHELL. No, Mr. Watson. What I was saying is that we don't have enough of the kind of thing that I have coming out of one of your papers—not yours, but out of your State. Now I would like to submit this for exhibit purposes. Since I have only one copy, I would appreciate it if your committee, could duplicate it in some way. Our executive floid director down in South Carolina sent me a copy of a news story in the August 8, 1967, Charlotte Observer and in the August 1967—I think that is the Palmetto State, isn't it? Mr. WATSON. That is correct. Mr. MITCHELL. Both of these stories indicate efforts on the part of the NAACP, under the leadership of Reverend I. DeQuincey Newman, to take positive steps to cooperate with the State in trying to head off possible violence. As you will see, these apparently were on the front page in big headline type. There are pictures of people involved. I am sorry to say that this is not done by many, many publications in this country. You can much more publicity as a Negro if you talk about burning down the Capitol or wanting to do something violent and destructive, maybe shoot Roy Wilkins, or something of that sort. You can get a whole lot more publicity by doing that than you can get by these constructive

things.

o I would hope is that the responsible publications would start looking at the whole picture and put some of these people who make wild statements in proper perspective so that you can see that they are really only speaking for themselves, and maybe even not themselves, because they change from day to day, depending on what is the most attractive thing to say for the headlines.

Mr. WATSON. I share your sentiments, and we are happy that this is taking place in South Carolina. We have what we feel a very excellent record in this particular field. I am happy for that. But at the same time, without public exposure of the Rap Browns and Stokely Carmichaels and some of the other radical, irresponsible people by the press, perhaps the people would never know about them. Hopefully your people will be governed accordingly and not be misled by these people. But apparently a great many of them have been. I agree with you it is not a majority. But I think you will concede that a great many of them have been wittingly or unwittingly misled by the likes of I3rown and Carmichael.

Mr. MITCHELL. No, Mr. Watson, I would say I believe in the exposure of wrongdoers, but I don't believe in overexposure to the point that you make the wrongdoer a kind of folk hero.

Mr. WATson. Do you believe any of your people conclude that Rap Brown and Carmichael are heroes?

Mr. MITCHELL. I would say that the only way you can answer that kind of question is through a Harris poll or a crystal ball or something of that sort. I would not say “yes,” but I would say that when you see a person's picture in a four-column cut on the front page of a leading metropolitan paper, as happened here, with all sorts of television and radio equipment around him taking down every word he says, I would think that somebody is going to believe that that fellow must be saying something pretty important. I feel that this is a question of judgment, and it would be my opinion that you could do the same thing of exposing whoever you wanted to expose by doing it with maybe at least a two-column picture or maybe putting it on the inside

a Q'e.

p fist think that we live in a period when the news competition is such that people strive to get the thing that is going to be the most sensational. I think you can be sensational by saying that somebody is going to come in here and blow up the Capitol. But, of course, it would seem to me irresponsible to say that if there is no basis for it in fact.

Mr. WATsoN. I might make this one final statement. I think you and I share the same thinking in that regard. I personally have thought many times that I had made a real earth-shaking statement in a news release, but I could not even trip up a newsman to give it to him, and others would rush out to get a shot at the likes of Carmichael and Rap Brown.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Tück. We thank you very much for your statement and the help you have given the committee.

Will you call the next witness.

Mr. McNAMARA. Mr. Asa Spaulding.

Mr. TUCK. Do you solemnly swear the testimony, you give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. SPAULDING. I do.

TESTIMONY OF ASA T. SPAULDING

Vr. Vc VANARA. Will you state your full name and address for the record, please?

Mr. SPAULDING. Jly name is Asa T. Spaulding. I live at 1608 Lincoln Street, Durham, North Carolina.

Mr. JcXAMARA. What is your business or profession, Mr. Spaulding?

Mr. SPAULDING. I am president of the North Carolina Mutual Life Insurance Company.

Mr. McNAMARA. Could you tell the committee how long you have been associated with that company?

Mr. SPAULDING. I have been associated with the company for over 10 years. As a matter of fact, it is the only job I ever had. I worked there during the summer when I was in high school right on through until I went back-finishing my education and I went back as a fulltime employee of the company. That was in 1932. I was elected actuary of the company in 1933. I held that position until 1935, when I was also elected assistant secretary. In 1945 I was elected comptroller. So I was actuary, assistant secretary, and comptroller from 1945 to 1948, when I was elected vice president, actuary, and comptroller, which position I held until January 1, 1959, when I became president of the company.

Mr. McNAMARA. Are you appearing today, Mr. Spaulding, in response to an invitation and request from the chairman that you testify in these hearings!

Mr. SPAULDING. I am.

Mr. MC XAMARA. Mr. Spaulding, you are a man of many accomplishments and activities and the hour is growing late. I will not ask you to spell out all of them, but I would like to state for the record that you are a member of the board of directors of a number of large financial institutions, that you are a trustee of Howard University and Shaw University, that you received a Presidential citation in 1916 for the work you did to help stabilize the economy of this Government during World War II.

You have been active in church work. You were a member of a United States delegation to a UNESCO general conference and I believe, Mr. Spaulding, you have recently returned from a trip abroad where you were inspecting military installations for the Department of Defense. Is this correct?

Mr. SPAULDING. There is a slight correction. I recently returned from a trip to Africa as a member of a trade mission for the United States Department of Commerce. I have just returned from a JCOC, the Joint Civilian Orientation Conference, under the auspices of the Department of Defense, where the military installations of this country were inspected. That ended on October 19.

Mr. MCNAMARA. I understand that at the end of this month you will be going to Germany for 2 weeks at the invitation of the West German Government to observe progress which has been made there under the Marshall plan. Is that correct?

Mr. SPAULDING. That is correct.

Mr. VcVAMARA. Mr. Spaulding, do you have a statement which you have prepared for submission to the committee?

Mr. SPAULDING. Yes, I do, Mr. McNamara. Mr. McNAMARA. Would vou care to read that? Mr. SPAULDING. I would like to. Mr. TUCK. The committee expresses its gratification that you have come here. I would like to say that while the present witness is not my constituent I have the privilege of living only 40 or 45 miles from him. I know of the great work that he is engaged in in North Carolina. I know of the respect in which he is j. people of both races all over the State of North Carolina. He has one of the largest insurance companies in that State. He enjoys an unusually high degree of confidence and esteem by the people, generally, of the great State of North Carolina. Mr. SPAULDING. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee on Un-American Activities: I am here today in response to your request to express my views on the following two basic issues: 1. Whether rioting, looting, and burning are compatible with the American system of government and whether they will serve to advance the interests of Negro citizens in the United States: 2. Whether or not Communists sincerely have the interests of the Negro at heart and Negroes, therefore, can accept them and work with them in their efforts to achieve full equality in this country. Before expressing my views on the two basic issues in question, Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee, I would like to quote from an article I wrote in July 1963, which reads in part as follows:

A BURNING ISSUE

The situation may have changed materially by the time this appears in print, but as of the time of its writing, there is no more burning issue facing the American public than that of Civil Rights.

NOT A PHONY

Let no one be misled into believing that this is a phony issue which will go away if ignored, or that Communists are solely responsible for the current racial unrest and activity in this Country. The origin of the motivation is deep-seated in the Negro himself, in his determined desire to have the same freedom of movement, choice, and opportunity as his fellow Americans of other races.

NOT A SURPRISE

Careful observers of racial trends since World War II, and especially since the Montgomery, Alabama, bus incident in 1955, have not been taken by surprise by what they see today. The coming events clearly cast their shadows before them, but far too many either buried their heads in the sand or assumed the attitude that “when ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise,” and refused to become concerned.

It has been abundantly clear to many for several years, that the desire for freedom and a better way of life on the part of underprivileged peoples throughout the world is an ever-rising tide, and the flow of it might be DAMNED but can not be dammed. Nor can this desire be crushed without destroying a major portion of the human race.

TO BLOCK EVOLUTION IS TO INVITE REVOLUTION

. . . In these rapidly changing times, too strenuous efforts to block accelerated evolution in the progress toward social, economic and political justice can but be an open invitation to revolution.

DEBT IN DEFAULT

The promissory note made to the Negro 100 years ago, embodying the American Promise and the American Dream as set forth in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution of the United States, and the Bill of Rights, and proclaimed through the Emancipation Proclamation, fell due long, long ago. . . . The present generation is demanding payment of the principal now and in full. This is the temper of the times. The serious question confronting America today is whether or not she will honor and fulfill her obligation.

YouTH DeTERMINED TO COLLECT

The young people are on the march. . . . They will not be deterred by arrests, jail sentences, fire hoses, police dogs, or death itself; for they feel that freedom and first-class citizenship are in the air . . . and they are determined to collect the full amount of the promissory note at this time. . . . I am convinced that the walls of segregation and barriers of discrimination based on race must go, and are certain to be washed away by the onrushing tide of history and change.

This article was written 4 years ago.

BRIDGES ACROSS CHASMS

All deprived peoples are still seeking bridges across the chasms separating their state and condition from that of the lands of greater opportunities and better living. The wide, cultural, educational, economic, social and political gaps separating members of the human family must be narrowed and/or bridged soon so that whosoever will may cross over to that better way of life.

The privileged (“the haves”) will know no peace or happiness again until these bridges are built. . . . It is because these cries have been unheard so long that we have our Newarks and Detroits of today.

The foregoing statement, Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee, is not an attempt to justify the riotings, looting, and burnings which have taken place, but rather is an effort to put them in proper perspective.

OPPOSED TO RIOTING, LOOTING, AND BURNING

I would like to make it abundantly clear, however, that while I support all appropriate efforts to have America live up to the ideals and principles upon which the Nation was founded, I do not and cannot support and/or condone the wanton destruction of human life and property. I therefore oppose rioting, looting, and burning and consider them incompatible with the American system of government.

Whether or not from the short-range viewpoint they will serve to advance the interests of Negro citizens in the United States may be debatable. I would observe, however, that that which is taken by force must be held and/or maintained by force unless and until the hearts and minds of those involved are changed.

Right here I would like to read a statement from the current issue of the house organ of my company on the company’s position:

[For the More Abundant Life]

According to St. John, 10th Chapter and 10th Verse, one of the purposes of the coming of Jesus was that man might have life and have it more abundantly. This is the objective of the Civil Rights struggle. This, too, is the mission of life insurance and the purpose for which North Carolina Mutual was organized, and is the purpose to which it is still dedicated. It seeks not only to destroy poverty, but also the causes of poverty; and is the enemy not only of crime but also what breeds it. Its aim is to help ward off misery, relieve distress, dispel fear and keep hope for the future alive.

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