6 the same time of Liston's conversation with you, similar ones were held with me by Mr. Eden. He particularly questioned me on the effect of our treaty with France, in the case of a war, and what might be our dispositions. I told him without hesitation, that our treaty obliged us to receive the armed vessels of France, with their prizes, into our ports, and to refuse the admission of prizes made on her by her enemies; that there was a clause by which we guaranteed to France her American possessions, and which might, perhaps, force us into the war, if these were attacked. Then it will be war,' said he, for they will assuredly be attacked.' I added, that our dispositions would be to be neutral, and that I thought it the interest of both those powers that we should be so, because it would relieve both from all anxiety as to the feeding their West India islands, and England would, moreover, avoid a heavy land war on our continent, which would cripple all her proceedings elsewhere. He expected these sentiments from me personally, and he knew them to be analogous to those of our country. We had often before had occasions of knowing each other: his peculiar bitterness towards us, had sufficiently appeared, and I had never concealed from him, that I considered the British as our natural enemies, and as the only nation on earth, who wished us ill from the bottom of their souls. And I am satisfied, that were our continent to be swallowed up by the ocean, Great "Britain would be in a bonfire from one end to the other. Mr. Adams, as you know, has asked his recal. This has been granted, and Colonel Smith is to return too; Congress having determined to put an end to their commission at that court. I suspect and hope they will make no new appoint ment. Our new constitution is powerfully attacked in the American newspapers. The objections are, that its effect would be to form the thirteen States into one; that, proposing to melt all down into one general government, they have fenced the people by no declaration of rights; they have not renounced the power of keeping a standing army; they have not secured the liberty of the press; they have reserved the power of abolishing trials by jury in civil cases; they have proposed that the laws of the federal legislatures, shall be paramount to the laws and constitutions of the States; they have abandoned rotation in office; and particularly, their President may be re-elected from four years to four years, for life, so as to render him a King for life, like a King of Poland; and they have not given him either the check or aid of a council. To these, they add calculations of expense, &c. &c. to frighten the people. You will perceive that those objections are serious, and some of them not without foundation. The constitution, however, has been received with a very general enthusiasm, and as far as can be judged from external demonstrations, the bulk of the people are eager to adopt it. In the eastern States, the printers will print nothing against it, unless the writer subscribes his name. Massachusetts and Connecticut have called conventions in January, to consider of it. In New York, there is a division. The Governor (Clinton) is known to be hostile to it. Jersey, it is thought, will certainly accept it. Pennsylvania is divided; and all the bitterness of her factions has been kindled anew on it. But the party in favor of it is strongest, both in and out of the legislature. This is the party antiently of Morris, Wilson, &c. Delaware will do what Pennsylvania shall do. Maryland is thought favorable to it; yet it is supposed Chase and Paca will oppose it. As to Virginia, two of her Delegates, in the first place, refused to sign it. These were Randolph the Governor, and George Mason. Besides these, Henry, Harrison, Nelson and the Lees, are against it. General Washington will be for it, but it is not in his character to exert himself much in the case. Madison will be its main pillar; but though an immensely powerful one, it is questionable whether he can bear the weight of such a host. So that the presumption is, that Virginia will reject it. We know nothing of the dispositions of the States south of this. Should it fall through, as is possible, notwithstanding the enthusiasm with which it was received in the first moment, it is probable that Congress will propose, that the objections which the people shall make to it being once known, another convention shall be assembled, to adopt the improvements generally acceptable, and omit those found disagreeable. In this way, union may be produced under a happy constitution, and one which shall not be too energetic, as are the constitutions of Europe. I give you these details, because, possibly, you may not have received them all. The sale of our western lands is immensely successful. Five millions of acres have been sold at private sale, for a dollar an acre, in certificates, and at the public sales, some of them had sold as high as two dollars and forty cents the acre. The sales had not been begun two months. By these means, taxes, &c. our domestic debt, originally twenty-eight millions of dollars, was reduced, by the 1st day of last October, to twelve millions, and they were then in treaty for two millions of acres more, at a dollar, private sale. Our domestic debt will thus be soon paid off, and that done, the sales will go on for money, at a cheaper rate, no doubt, for the payment of our foreign debt. The petite guerre always waged by the Indians, seems not to abate the ardour of purchase or emigration. Kentucky is now counted at sixty thousand. Frankland is also growing fast. I have been told, that the cutting through the Isthmus of Panama, which the world has so often wished, and supposed practicable, has at times been thought of by the government of Spain, and that they once proceeded so far, as to have a survey and examination made of the ground; but that the result was, either impracticability or too great difficulty. Probably the Count de Campomanes, or Don Ulloa, can give you information on this head. I should be exceedingly pleased to get as minute details as possible on it, and even copies of the survey, report, &c. if they could be obtained at a moderate expense. I take the liberty of asking your assistance in this. I have the honour to be, with very great respect and esteem, Sir, your most obedient and most humble servant, TH: JEFFERSON. TO JOHN ADAMS. Paris, December 12, 1787. DEAR SIR, In the month of July, I received from Fiseaux and Co. of Amsterdam, a letter notifying me that the principal of their loan to the United States, would become due the first day of January. I answered them, that I had neither powers nor information on the subject, but would transmit their letter to the board of treasury. I did so, by the packet which sailed from Havre, August the 10th. The earliest answer possible, would have been by the packet which arrived at Havre three or four days ago. But by her I do not receive the scrip of a pen from any body. This makes me suppose, that my letters are committed to Paul Jones, who was to sail a week after the departure of the packet; and that possibly, he may be the bearer of orders from the treasury, to repay Fiseaux' loan, with the money you borrowed. But it is also possible, he may bring no order on the subject. The slowness with which measures are adopted on our side the water, does not permit us to count on punctual answers; but, on the contrary, renders it necessary for us to suppose, in the present case, that no orders will arrive in time, and to consider whether any thing, and what, should be done? As it may be found expedient to transfer all our foreign debts to Holland, by borrowing there, and as it may always be prudent to preserve a good credit in that country, because we may be forced into wars, whether we will or not, I should suppose it very imprudent to suffer our credit to be annihilated, for so small a sum as fifty-one thousand guelders. The injury will be greater too, in proportion to the smallness of the sum; for they will ask, How can a people be trusted for large sums, who break their faith for such small ones?' You know best what effect it will have on the minds of the money lenders of that country, should we fail in this payment. You know best also, whether it is practicable and prudent for us, to have this debt paid without orders. I refer the matter, therefore, wholly to your consideration, willing to participate with you in any risk and any responsibility, which may arise. I think it one of those cases, where it is a duty to risk one's self. You will perceive, by the inclosed, the necessity of an immediate answer, and that, if you think any thing can and should be done, all the necessary authorities from you should accompany your letter. In the mean time, should I receive any orders from the treasury by Paul Jones, I will pursue them, and consider whatever you shall have proposed or done, as non avenue. I am, with much affection, Dear Sir, your most obedient and most humble servant, TH: JEFFERSON. TO JAMES MADISON. Paris, December 20, 1787. DEAR SIR, My last to you was of October the 8th, by the Count de Moustier. Yours of July the 18th, September the 6th and October the 24th, were successively received, yesterday, the day before, and three or four days before that. I have only had time to read the letters; the printed papers communicated with them, however interesting, being obliged to lie over till I finish my despatches for the packet, which despatches must go from hence the day after to-morrow. I have much to thank you for; first and most for the cyphered paragraph respecting myself. These little informations are very VOL. II. T material towards forming my own decisions. I would be glad even to know, when any individual member thinks I have gone wrong in any instance. If I know myself, it would not excite ill blood in me, while it would assist to guide my conduct, perhaps to justify it, and to keep me to my duty, alert. I must thank you too, for the information in Thomas Burke's case; though you will have found by a subsequent letter, that I have asked of you a further investigation of that matter. It is to gratify the lady who is at the head of the convent wherein my daughters are, and who, by her attachment and attention to them, lays me under great obligations. I shall hope, therefore, still to receive from you the result of all the further inquiries, my second letter had asked. The parcel of rice which you informed me had miscarried, accompanied my letter to the Delegates of South Carolina. Mr. Bourgoin was to be the bearer of both, and both were delivered together into the hands of his relation here, who introduced him to me, and who, at a subsequent moment, undertook to convey them to Mr. Bourgoin. This person was an engraver, particularly recommended to Dr. Franklin and Mr. Hopkinson. Perhaps he may have mislaid the little parcel of rice among his baggage. I am much pleased, that the sale of western lands is so successful. I hope they will absorb all the certificates of our domestic debt speedily, in the first place, and that then, offered for cash, they will do the same by our foreign ones. The season admitting only of operations in the cabinet, and these being in a great measure secret, I have little to fill a letter. I will therefore make up the deficiency, by adding a few words on the constitution proposed by our convention. I like much the general idea of framing a government, which should go on of itself peaceably, without needing continual recurrence to the State legislatures. I like the organization of the government into legislative, judiciary and executive. I like the power given the legislature to levy taxes, and for that reason solely, I approve of the greater House being chosen by the people directly. For though I think a House so chosen will be very far inferior to the present Congress, will be very ill qualified to legislate for the Union, for foreign nations, &c. yet this evil does not weigh against the good, of preserving inviolate the fundamental principle, that the people are not to be taxed but by representatives chosen immediately by themselves. I am captivated by the compromise of the opposite claims of the great and little States, of the latter to equal, and the former to proportional influence. I am much pleased too, with the |