thing can be more plainly spoken, than these words against the error of transubstantiation; which is the ground and bitter root whereupon spring all the horrible errors before rehearsed.

Wherefore, seeing, that the falsehood hereof appears so manifestly, and by so many ways, so plainly, so clearly, and so fully, that no man needs to be deceived, but he that will not see, or will not understand; let us all that love the truth embrace it, and forsake the falsehood. For he that loveth the truth is of God: and the lack of the love thereof is the cause why God suffers men to fall into errors, and to perish therein; yea, and as St. Paul saith, why he sends unto them illusions, that they believe lies, unto their own condemnation: "because, saith he, they love not the truth."

This truth, no doubt, is God's word: for Christ himself saith unto his Father: "Thy word is truth." The love and light whereof Almighty God, our heavenly Father, give us, and lighten it in our hearts by his Holy Spirit, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

CONFERENCES.

Doctor Ridley being had from Framlingham to the tower; where, being in durance, and invited to the lieutenant's table, he had certain talk or conference with secretary Bourn, Master Fecknam, and others, concerning the controversies in religion; the sum whereof, as it was penned with his own hand, here follows.-Fox.

The sum and effect of the communication between Dr. Ridley and secretary Bourn, with others, at the lieutenant's table in the tower.

MASTER THOMAS BRIDGES said at his brother Master Lieutenant's board; "I pray you, Master Doctors, for my learning, tell me what a heretic is." Master Secretary Bourn said, "I will tell you who is a heretic; whoso stubbornly and stiffly maintaineth an untruth, he is a heretic." "You mean, sir," said I, "an untruth in matters of religion, and concerning our faith." "Yea, that is true," said he; "and in this we are soon agreed."

Then said Master Fecknam, whom they called Dean of Paul's, sitting at the upper end of the table: "I will tell you by St. Augustine who is a heretic: He who, to flatter princes or for the sake of gain, invents or follows false opinions, he is a heretic.'” "Sir," said I, "I ween St. Augustine adds a third member, which is, or for vain glory."" "You say even true, Master Doctor," said he: and thus far we agreed all three.

Master Fecknam began again to say, "Whoso does not believe what the Scripture affirms, but obstinately maintains the contrary, he is a heretic. As in the sacrament of the altar, Matthew affirms there is Christ's body: Mark affirms it, Luke affirms it, Paul affirms it, and none deny it: therefore to hold the contrary, is heresy. It is the same body and flesh that was born of the Virgin: and this is confirmed by unity, antiquity, and universality.

For none before Berengarius did ever doubt of this, and he was a heretic, as Master Doctor there knows full well; I testify his own conscience."

"Marry, sir,” said Master Secretary, "Master Fecknam has spoken well. These are great matters, unity, antiquity, and universality. Do you not think so, Master Doctor?" said he to me.

Here, while I strained courtesy, and pretended not to talk, one of the commissioners said: "Peradventure Master Ridley agrees with Master Fecknam, and then there needs not much debating of the matter."

"Sir," said I," in some things I do and shall agree with him, and in some things which he has spoken, to be plain, I do not agree with him at all. Masters," said I, "you are, as I understand, the queen's commissioners here, and if you have commission to examine me in these matters, I shall declare unto you plainly my faith; if you have not, then I shall pray you either to give me leave to speak my mind freely, or else to hold my peace."

"There is none here," said Master Secretary, "that doth not favour you." And then every man showed what favour they bore towards me, and how glad they would be of an agreement.

But as I strained to have a license of them in plain words to speak my mind, so methought they granted me it, but scarcely and unwillingly. Well, at the last I was content to take it for a license, and so I began to talk.

To Master Fecknam's arguments of the manifold affirmation where there was no denial, I answered; "Where is a multitude of affirmations in Scripture, and where is one affirmation, all is one concerning the truth of the matter; for what any one of the evangelists spake, inspired by the Holy Ghost, was as true as that which is spoken of them all. What John saith of Christ; I am the door of the sheep,' is as true as if all had said it. For it is not in Scripture as in the witness of men, where a number are credited more than one, because it is uncertain of whose spirit he speaks. And where Master Fecknam spake of so many affirming without any negation, &c., Sir, said I, they all affirm the thing which they meant. Now, if you take their words and leave their meaning, then they affirm what you take, but not what they meant. Sir, said I, if in talk with you, I should so utter my mind in words, that you, by the same, may plainly perceive my meaning, and could, if you

would be captious, cavil at my words, and writhe them to another sense, I should think you were no gentle companion to talk with, except you would take my words as you perceived that I meant,"

"Marry," said Master Secretary, "we should else do you plain injury and wrong."

Master Fecknam perceiving whereunto my talk went; "Why," said he, "what circumstances can you show me that should move to think of any other sense, than as the words plainly say: 'This is my body which shall be betrayed for you.""

"Sir," said I, 66 even the next sentence that follows: 'Do this in my remembrance.' And also by what reason you say the bread is turned into Christ's carnal body; by the same I may say, that it is turned into his mystical body. For as that saith of it, 'This is my body which shall be delivered for you:' so Paul, who spake by Christ's Spirit, saith: We being many are all but one bread, and one body, inasmuch as we are partakers of one bread.'” "Here he called one loaf, one bread," said Master Secretary.

Yea," said I, "one loaf, or one bread, it is the same with me."

"But what say you," quoth Master Secretary, "of the universality, antiquity, and unity, that Master Fecknam spoke of."

"I ensure you," said I, "I think them weighty matters, and to be well considered. As for unity, the truth is, before God, I do believe it and embrace it, so it be with verity, and joined to our head Christ, and such one as Paul speaketh of, saying: One faith, one God, one baptism.' And for antiquity, I am also persuaded to be true that Irenæus saith: That which was first is true.' In our religion Christ's faith was first truly taught by Christ himself, by his apostles, and by many good men who from the beginning succeeded next unto them. And as for this controversy of the Sacrament, I am persuaded, that those old writers who wrote before the controversy and the usurping of the see of Rome, all agree in this truth, if they are well understood."

"I am glad to hear," said Master Secretary, "that you so well esteem the doctors of the church."

"Now, as for universality, it may have two meanings. One to understand that to be universal, which, from the

beginning in all ages, has been allowed; another to understand universality for the multitude of our age, or of any other particular age."

"No, no," saith Master Secretary, "these three always agree, and where there is one, there are all the rest." And here he and I changed many words: and finally, to be short, in this matter we did not agree.

"There was none," quoth Master Fecknam, "before Berengarius, Wickliffe, and Huss, and now, in our days, Carolstadt, and Ecolampadius. And Carolstadt saith, Christ pointed to his own body and not to the Sacrament, and said, 'This is my body.' And Melancthon writes to one Micronius (Myconius, said I) these or like words: 'I can find no well grounded reason to cause me to dissent from the belief of our forefathers.""

Thus when he had spoken at length, with many other words, “Sir,” said I, "it is certain that others before these have written of this matter. Not by the way only, as almost all the old writers, but even designedly, and their books treat of it alone, as Bertram."

"Bertram," said the Secretary: "what man was he?* who was he? how do you know?" with other questions.

"Sir," quoth I, "I have read his books: he proposes the same which is now in controversy, and answers so directly, that no man may doubt but that he affirms, that the substance of bread remains still in the Sacrament; and he wrote unto Charlemagne."

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Marry," quoth he, "mark, for there is a mistake. He wrote to Henry, and not Charles; for no author makes any such mention of Bertramus."

"Yes," quoth I, "Trithemius, in his Catalogue of illustrious writers, speaks of him. Trithemius was but of late times; but he speaks," quoth I, "of them that were of antiquity." Here, after much talk of Bertram,

"What authors have you," quoth Master Secretary, "that make the Sacrament a figure?"

"Sir," quoth I, "you know, I think, that Tertullian in plain words speaks thus: 'This is my body, that is to say, a figure of my body.' And Gelasius saith plainly, that 'The substance of bread remains.' And Origen saith likewise, 'That which is sanctified, as touching the matter or substance, passeth away into the draught."" This when I

See the note prefixed to the Treatise on the Lord's Supper.